Unresolved problem with G&R Tactical/C4IGrant

This is a discussion on Unresolved problem with G&R Tactical/C4IGrant within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I want to share with the membership a problem that I've had with one of our forum sponsors, G&R Tactical. I have attempted to get ...

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Thread: Unresolved problem with G&R Tactical/C4IGrant

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Exclamation Unresolved problem with G&R Tactical/C4IGrant

    I want to share with the membership a problem that I've had with one of our forum sponsors, G&R Tactical. I have attempted to get Grant to resolve this issue privately, but to no avail - so with the permission of our Administrators, I will state here what has happened in an effort to have this situation remedied.

    On July 7, C4IGrant posted his Surefire open box sale on several forums, including this one. I contacted him with several questions, all of which were answered relatively quickly, if not hurriedly. I asked, specifically, if he had any A2 Aviators with a black anodized finish. He replied that he had two A2s, one with yellow/green LEDs and a grey finish, and one with red LEDs and a black finish. I asked him to confirm that it was indeed black, and requested a picture. He assured me it was black, so, sight unseen, I called him and gave my CC information. The light arrived in great condition, new in box, but with one fault - it was not black, but grey. I contacted him and attached the following photographic proof of his error.



    On top is my E2DL, anodized in black. In the plastic clamshell is the A2 - obviously, not black. When I told Grant that he had erred, he replied "it looked black in the shop." When I pressed the issue, I was informed that I was sent a brand new light in the package, not the open box one I paid for (implying that I should be happy I got something "better" than what I bought). I reiterated my displeasure, pointing out the fact that I did not want a grey A2, at all - the ONLY reason I placed the order was because of his statement that it was black. If I had wanted a grey A2, I would have bought one off of eBay or CPF for about $30 less than what I was charged through G&R.

    So far, I have offered two solutions that I feel would be reasonable in this situation. As I was not the one who made an error, or just changed my mind, I do not feel that I should be liable for return shipping costs. I also understand that though Grant misrepresented the product to me, he is a small businessman that caters to our interests, and probably runs on thin margins as it is.

    1. I asked Grant to pay return shipping of the light to him, as well as refunding me the full amount charged to my card. Grant replied that returns are charged a 15% restocking fee for "open box" merchandise - even though it was new in the package!

    2. I then suggested to Grant that rather than refunding the full purchase price and returning the light, he simply refund the difference between what I paid and his cost on the light - effectively negating only his profit, but causing him no loss - in order for me to attempt to re-sell the light to recoup my costs. I feel this is reasonable because, as I stated earlier, the secondary market for this flashlight maxes out at about $100 - heck, they were available at Sportsman's Warehouse for $97 earlier this year! I would not be able to recoup the $133 that I am into the light for without an additional refund.

    I received no further communication from Grant after this last message, which was sent nearly a week ago.

    I know this is extremely minor to those that are fighting for holsters or refunds, and have been for months or years, but I feel this is a separate issue - the misrepresentation of a product, the inability to resolve a minor customer service issue, and the assumption that you know better than what the customer wants. I'm sorry to bring this to light, but I feel this is the last avenue for resolution that I have before contesting charges and contacting the Better Business Bureau.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting...it's unfortunate when business owners, especially forum sponsors, cannot or will not work to ensure customer satisfaction. It really seems like a bad business decision, especially with the ease that information can be shared with the internet. Assuming he profits a mere 5% on the products he sells, with this thread on the forum, he has alreadly lost more than the return shipping would have cost him to make a customer happy.

    I won't be ordering from Grant in the future.
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    Is there more of a difference between the gray and black models besides color? Just curious about the pricing difference, and why the black is so important.

    I'm not defending Grant, but I can see how somebody could make that same mistake with it in the blister pack; if your black light was not right beside the gray one, I'd say its black too.

    No matter, it seems to me that this should be a quick and easy problem to fix.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    The black is very rare and is a collectible item - the only reason I wanted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    The black is very rare and is a collectible item - the only reason I wanted it.
    Oh OK, I didn't know that.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    I hope this gets solved. I have a feeling that once the seller/business sees a running thread, the problem will hopefully be resolved in a way that is satisfactory to you both. I absolutely refuse to shop at any store that has a "restocking fee" for items that I don't open, or alter in any way whatsoever. I can also understand the seller making the buyer pay return shipping if they change their mind, but to pay return shipping due to an error made by the seller, well thats a bit much. I have been researching a surefire for both work and personal carry, as I currently use a mini-maglite. I don't think I will be using this supplier anytime soon. Please update the thread as the problem is resolved, or not. Personally, I don't understand why a refund in full would be a problem. It sounds like a simple seller error, easy to fix. I also had no idea black was a collectible color, interesting.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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    BAC
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    I know folks have been having lots of troubles getting in touch with him recently, and as I understand he's pretty busy, but this still seems a bit out of character. I hope everything gets resolved, Chooie.


    -B

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    The black is very rare and is a collectible item - the only reason I wanted it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Oh OK, I didn't know that.
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    Sorry I couldn't resist. I really hope your issues do get resolved though. I can see how he might have made a mistake in the wrong light(no pun intended) or something, but I'm baffled as to why he wasn't willing to work with you at all to fix it.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Sorry I couldn't resist. I really hope your issues do get resolved though. I can see how he might have made a mistake in the wrong light(no pun intended) or something, but I'm baffled as to why he wasn't willing to work with you at all to fix it.
    The mistake doesn't bother me - it happens! What bothers me is the reluctance to admit the mistake, the lack of communication, and apparent refusal to accept responsibility and offer a resolution.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I can see how he might have made a mistake in the wrong light(no pun intended) or something, but I'm baffled as to why he wasn't willing to work with you at all to fix it.
    While this may not help Chooie's cause, regardless of whether or not he corrects his original mistake, I will never do business with him. There is no reason why somebody(Chooie) should have to go through this much trouble to get a mistake or misrepresentation taken care of by a business owner.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Seems pretty clear cut to me - I'm interested to see what Grant has to say about it. I hope you two can work this out, although it looks like that isn't happening.

    Austin

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    JRI
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    The fact that you specifically asked him to confirm that it was indeed black lays the mistake on his door step. You are totally justified in demanding a full and total refund or a black light.

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    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    Although I haven't purchased much from the forum advertisers I have aways felt that If allowed one of the prime advertising spots (limited to 12 I think) that constituted an endorsement on behalf of the forum.

    Big business or small business mistakes are made, personally what matters to me is how they are handled. I can understand a person being busy, but to just drop off the planet so to speak seems kind of underhanded to me. I'm not making any accusations as I have no personal experience with this company/person.

    I too have been the victim of mistakes or even outright lies (not here, or anyone associated with the forum) and I can tell you that when you go through the trouble of actually verifying with the seller exactly what you want and then get something different its not really always about dollars, it's about principle and integrity. Once that has been lost it's almost impossible to get back. On the other hand if you treat me fairly and make things right you've won a life long, loyal customer, and you'll get my personal endorsement if asked for a reference. Part of owning up to a mistake may involve loosing some time and money, I know it has for me. I've bid jobs wrong before and just had to suck it up and take the loss, it's a part of the learning curve and keeping your integrity intact.

    Sorry to rant a little, but I've grown to expect more from forum members. Maybe I was wrong to assume that advertising space here is an endorsement.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Still have not received a reply from Grant. At this point in time I'm very much tempted to just take the loss and keep the light - but I will never order from or recommend him again.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Got a PM from Grant today, I'm now awaiting a response to my reply. Hoping this works out.

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