This is a discussion on Laser grips. Yay, or Nay? within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I believe nite sites and practice,one thing a laser site might be good for is intimidation,BG sees laser dot on chest ,he gives up before ...
I believe nite sites and practice,one thing a laser site might be good for is intimidation,BG sees laser dot on chest ,he gives up before being shot
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
For the most part, it seems if you are using your pistol and laser for intimidaation, you should not have it out.
I agree, there might be times, but my mind set is if I draw, I intend to fire. Then next might be the decision to hold fire.
Intimidation might be far down the list.
When I leave the home port:
S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP
I don't want to take focus off my front sight. No gimmicks for me, just practice, practice, practice.
I think people tend to rely on these things too much and ultimately they will just end up slowing them down when their life depends on it. The quickest way is to draw, focus on your front sight until it covers the chest, and squeeze. No need to adjust your focus and fool with a lazer when your life is in danger.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
When I recently put crimson trace on my 1911, I did not know what to expect. I am no marksman - I normally shoot slow 4-5 inch patterns. But when I shot with the laser sights my groups shrank to 3.5-4 inches at 30 feet and now as low as 2 inches (knocking out a hole in the target) close up - and this firing rapidly. So for me, they are a good thing. I still practice without them, but am glad I have them.
Kimber Pro CDP II
"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." St. Augustine A.D. 354-430
They are useful.
It's nice and dreamy to think that every person in the United States that owns a handgun for home defense will go out and shoot 500 rounds at the range every week or every other week and sign up for defensive shooting instruction but the vast majority never will.
The reality is that not every American that owns a gun is "into" guns. The majority don't collect them or trade them or covet them. The fact is that they just "own one" on the remote chance that they may need it some day.
My personal belief is that even though they are not EXPERT hand-gunners they still do have every right to own a firearm for possible personal protection.
It is also pretty much futile to preach that they should "save their money" & just go out and buy more practice ammo and sharpen their self defense shooting skills by going for lethal force training because they either won't or cannot.
So that leaves us with the fact that lasers DO dramatically increase on target "hit percentages" for those types of individuals who are unwilling or unable to hone shooting skills.
A perfect example is a woman who is an associate of mine. She is in her 80s and still extremely active in politics and doing daily hospital volunteer work plus family obligations and taking care of the general maintenance of her home...add food shopping and all of the other things that average folks normally do to fill their time and she will never practice shooting weekly or monthly.
She is however a highly responsible adult and she did want a firearm for home protection. I went "gun shopping" with her and she decided on a S&W revolver which I fit with Crimson Trace for her.
We went over "firearm safety basics" & I took her out twice to shoot. I gave her a pair of safety glasses and she used an extra set of my muffs.
She did manage to keep her hits on a "Man" target with the laser and it was a great confidence booster for her.
Can she afford to hire a 24 hour personal bodyguard? No.
Ultimately WILL she ever be able to effectively defend herself with that firearm? I have absolutely no idea and I can't predict the future.
Does she feel better having a firearm at home? Absolutely!
Is she a danger to society because she is not a highly skilled marksman? Nope.
For her a laser is the best thing that has been invented since frozen toast and I figure that at least now she has some chance at personal defense whereas prior to her handgun purchase...she had none.
So there is no Black & White answer and you can't always just "flat out" say:..."Lasers are no good...everybody should practice more."
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
I have a SIG that I installed the LaserMax internal laser sight in. It's used primarily as my home defense weapon and, in a pinch, target acquisition is much quicker. In bright light it's all but useless and I recommend practice with and without a laser sight.
Member NRA, SAF and Georgiacarry.org
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln
I understand that not everyone can or will invest the time/money required to become competent shooter... but it really doesn’t take all that much. If done right, it will cost you less than the laser did.
I will agree that a laser is best used by those who don't know what they are doing and can't/won't learn for what ever reason. I will also concede that it can be helpful to those who may have a handicap such as poor eyesight.
Some ask why I despise the laser so much... its because they are nothing but a gimmick designed to separate you from your money. You shell out the cash, and you have no appreciable skills that you get to keep for good. It drives me nuts when people brag about their pistols, "My superduper 1911 has X, Y, Z and a Crimson Trace laser!"... thats like saying "I own one of Lance Armstrongs race bikes, and I added a set of training wheels with pink tassels. If you need training wheels and like pink tassels, that's OK I guess, but I sure wouldn’t be bragging about it.
Now in the case of QK's friend, I'm OK with a laser. It might help old ladies.
Last edited by SIXTO; October 21st, 2008 at 02:08 PM.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
While I know some citizens who have those fancy grips, I for one, will forgo them.
For defense, practicing point and shoot and instinctive shooting is far more important
IMO lasers are toys for the novice shooter who wants to build his confidence, but it winds up having the opposite effect and decreases marksmanship skills. They have their place with a good instructor for the diagnosis of shooter problems. Learn to drive your gun with the non laser sights of your choosing.
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
Ok so how many of your nay sayers have cats?
I have CTC laser grips on two of my Sigs and aside from an aiming aid they make wonderful cat toys. With the slide removed (for safety) I can sit and have either one of my friendly feline idiots running in circles for hours!
I havent taken the time to verify it at the range but this tormenting of my cats has increased my ability to precisely put the dot at increased distances in my home from unconventional positions. This is not done by painting the whole room but rather by pointing and then hitting the momentary switch to see where the beam falls. This indicates to me that my indexing of the weapon realative to my body in these odd positions may improve my accuracy in point/instinctive shooting.
Would I want to depend on the laser in a life or death situation? No. Do I think they have their uses? Yes.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
I am nearly 67 and have been shooting for over 55 years. I never had any shooting problems during the first 53 of those years without a laser. But now that I wear trifocals I can assure you that my lasergrips have helped immensely especially in dim light. Yes, a laser is useless in bright light, but most of us geezers can see better in daylight and don't need it anyway. It is during poor lighting conditions when a laser comes in handy.
Even though I have night sights on my EDC, I can bring my gun to bear on the target much quicker with the laser. An added benefit for those of us with less than perfect vision (and reflexes) is that, if it becomes necessary, I would rather be able to keep my slow-to-adjust depth of field primarily on the BG without having to switch back and forth from the front sight.
I would guess that those who feel that lasers are used as a crutch in order to avoid learning better shooting skills are probably much younger. It would be interesting to see if their opinion changes after 67 years of wear on THEIR eyes.
"Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
Ralph Waldo Emerson