Laser grips. Yay, or Nay?

This is a discussion on Laser grips. Yay, or Nay? within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gimpy I would guess that those who feel that lasers are used as a crutch in order to avoid learning better shooting ...

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Thread: Laser grips. Yay, or Nay?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post

    I would guess that those who feel that lasers are used as a crutch in order to avoid learning better shooting skills are probably much younger. It would be interesting to see if their opinion changes after 67 years of wear on THEIR eyes.
    But they are a crutch.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Recently I took a course in instinctive shooting due to my declining eyesight. I cannot focus on the front sight, but my distance sight is fine. After this training, I am confident that NO sights are necessary in the close distance of home defense or street situations. I borrowed my girlfriend's laser-equipped 642 and started practicing in the dark. With a timer, I'm almost twice as fast with two COM shots without the laser. That dot is distracting, and takes time to get on target. If you already know where your gun is pointing without having to acquire any sight pattern, you've won the fight.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Recently I took a course in instinctive shooting due to my declining eyesight. I cannot focus on the front sight, but my distance sight is fine. After this training, I am confident that NO sights are necessary in the close distance of home defense or street situations. I borrowed my girlfriend's laser-equipped 642 and started practicing in the dark. With a timer, I'm almost twice as fast with two COM shots without the laser. That dot is distracting, and takes time to get on target. If you already know where your gun is pointing without having to acquire any sight pattern, you've won the fight.
    and that is exactly what a knowledgable gun fighter knows.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    But they are a crutch.
    Sixto,
    God forbid YOUR night vision start to fail as you age, but would you give up your right to protect yourself just because you refused to use a laser as a crutch? Like you, I learned my shooting skills early in life without any crutch whatsoever. I wish I still had my youthful eyesight, but alas we don't give up--we adjust. Years ago I used to run marathons, but today I can hardly get around after a botched hip replacement. My cane is my crutch when it comes to walking, but using it is better than not being able to walk at all.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #35
    Member Array Slabsides45's Avatar
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    One of my 1911's has a laser grip on it. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but then again, I hadn't had any training. Now when I try to shoot it, it distracts me. Yeah, like QK said, they are fine for marginal (non) shooters. My wife's hammerless snub has one for grins, and she's never gonna shoot it if I don't make her. For her, it does help put shots on center mass. But for me, I plan to sell the laser grip on mine and use that money to allow Brownie to buy beer for his girlfriend, and in turn feel obliged to teach me the Jedi way of the instinctive shot....

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    Sixto,
    God forbid YOUR night vision start to fail as you age, but would you give up your right to protect yourself just because you refused to use a laser as a crutch? Like you, I learned my shooting skills early in life without any crutch whatsoever. I wish I still had my youthful eyesight, but alas we don't give up--we adjust. Years ago I used to run marathons, but today I can hardly get around after a botched hip replacement. My cane is my crutch when it comes to walking, but using it is better than not being able to walk at all.
    Here is some things I've said already for your reading pleasure.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Nobody is saying that across the board. I'm advocating calling a spade a spade. It is in fact a crutch...

    But if you're OK with or need to substitute skill with a gadget, go right ahead, thats why CT and the others are in business...

    I will also concede that it can be helpful to those who may have a handicap such as poor eyesight.
    If your legs dont work like they should any more, you use a crutch, much like you are using a laser because your eyes are not so good any more. Like I've been saying, lets call a spade a spade here.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Here is some things I've said already for your reading pleasure.
    OK. I'm good if you're good.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    OK. I'm good if you're good.
    I'm good.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #39
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    But they sound so cool.

    If someone gives me one I would like to try it out but I am not spending the money for one.

  11. #40
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    If you get into Integrated Threat Focus shooting, they are a wonderful tool to verify your accuracy to the spot you've already pointed at. It doesn't take long to learn the techniques that make all the hardware "add-ons" unnecessary, if not redundant. Gimpy, I can personally sympathize with your situation, mine is just not that far yet. What scares me terribly are folks with bad macular degeneration (like my Dad) who can't see across the room thinking lasers are the solution. He wouldn't know if it was me or the bogey man across the living room. When the eyesight gets to that point, it's time to put away the guns and get a Rottweiler.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  12. #41
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    Presented Just To Mix It Up A Little

    Lasers

    With lasers, shooters generally fall into two camps: those who like them and those who don’t.
    Until I accepted a laser as just another tool, I was staunchly against them.
    Lasers do have a practical application.
    They are perfect for holding a suspect or bad guy at bay until help arrives.
    Try holding your handgun on target for 10 minutes (an optimistic response time for law enforcement) in a manner where you are sure a fast hit could be made if required.
    It is much easier to hold the handgun at a low ready and use the laser as a reference point for aiming.

    Sometimes the laser may be all you see. During one scenario I was using a handgun equipped with a Crimson Trace Lasergrip and, honestly, activated it unintentionally.
    I knew it was there but did not realize I was using it—possibly a byproduct of stress.
    The bad guy presented a target, and I brought the gun up in a hurry but have no recollection of seeing the sights.
    What I did see was a bright red dot on the offender’s torso.
    My brain said, This might be a good time to pull the trigger.
    I executed a double-tap and connected with both shots at about 16 feet.

    A revolver has limited capacity and provides no means for the attachment of a weapon light.
    However, wheelguns readily accept Crimson Trace Laser Grips.
    Capacity

    There have been a number of studies determining the hit-to-miss ratio in law enforcement shootings.
    Police shootings involving handguns tend to replicate distances and situations that are somewhat similar to what a citizen can expect to encounter.
    The numbers tell us roughly 20 percent of the shots fired by police hit the intended target.
    Why is this important? If your handgun only holds five rounds, like many small frame revolvers commonly carried for personal protection, you can reasonably expect to hit your target with one of the five shots.
    If you are one of those who worship the 1911, then you can expect to hit the bad guy about 1.6 times.
    These numbers are not inspiring.

    QKShooter Note:
    (while not mentioned specifically in this article the hit percentages in actual LEO shoot scenarios goes up to 90% hits on target when LEO firearms are laser equipped) Just FYI

    After two trips through the shoot-house with a revolver I said, “No, more! Give me a gun that holds more ammo!”

    Point is: You are in complete control of the handgun you select, so why intentionally choose one with limited capacity? Often it is because the ability to carry the gun concealed dictates a smaller pistol or revolver.
    If that is the case, your plan should be to use that limited-capacity handgun to fight your way to a gun with more firepower.
    Even a shooter of average skill can empty a standard-capacity 1911 in a few seconds.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    QKShooter Note:
    (while not mentioned specifically in this article the hit percentages in actual LEO shoot scenarios goes up to 90% hits on target when LEO firearms are laser equipped) Just FYI
    If you truly believe that, you are a used car salesmans dream. Those are CT's numbers.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #43
    Member Array 1boredguy's Avatar
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    How about we answer some questions here....

    "Has anyone tried the laser grips?"
    Yes, I've tried on the full size XD 9 and on my SP101.

    "If so, did it change your ability to conceal the weapon?"
    The Crimson Trace grips I've tried were rubber. They feel great, but don't slide by clothing so great. Rubber grips are more tacky than any... non-rubber grip. So you might notice catching a bit ,with lighter t-shirts, when sitting down and getting back up. The lil "nub", where the laser shoots out, isn't any problem.

    "How well do they work?"
    The red lasers are significantly noticeable during day.
    They can have a few benefits, in practicing and defense, and it just depends on preference.
    I don't use mine very much at the range. It can be a tool to see how solid you're holding the gun and how smooth your pulling the trigger. So it can be an optional visual aid for beginners.

    Of course you don't want to count on the red dot pin pointing your target, but in a defensive situation where you might be scared sh!tless for your life - or even INJURED and can't properly do a text book grip - then a laser sight would definitely help out a bit. That lil bit might give you the edge in the fight.

    So it might help in those few scenarios.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    And if you really want to be embarrassed, use one on a busy range. That way EVERYONE can see how much your muzzle is dancing around. They really broadcast flinches also, and make them public. Basic handling skills, training, and tons of practice is essential. I've seen so many new shooters buying gimmicks thinking they will make them Rambo. In certain circumstances, aids can be helpful, but if you don't have the basic skills, you're only fooling yourselves.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  16. #45
    Member Array 1boredguy's Avatar
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    BTW griffin7, pay no attention to the facetious remarks or posters who have placed a stigma on the laser sights and their users. Laser sights are just a tool, and if used intelligently and responsibly they can have some benefits in some scenarios. Yes, there are ignorant people in existence who replace skill, or eminently rely, on these types of tools. However, to stereotype all users of laser sights is ignorance in itself. Good luck with your research.

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