Two Magazine Carriers from Tuff Products

Two Magazine Carriers from Tuff Products

This is a discussion on Two Magazine Carriers from Tuff Products within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello. To say that semiautomatic handguns and rifles are more popular now than ever is a pretty safe statement. The semiautomatic handgun has pretty much ...

Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Two Magazine Carriers from Tuff Products

  1. #1
    1951 - 2011
    Array Stephen A. Camp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    496

    Two Magazine Carriers from Tuff Products

    Hello. To say that semiautomatic handguns and rifles are more popular now than ever is a pretty safe statement. The semiautomatic handgun has pretty much replaced the tried-and-true revolvers that graced law enforcement’s holsters decade after decade and those of many defense-oriented private citizens as well. Other than hunting and some competitions designed with the “round gun” in mind, “electric guns” dominate most handgun sports…or so it seems.

    On both television and in printed media, I continue to hear and read that the AR-15 style semiautomatic rifle is the most popular in this country, seemingly selling as quickly as they can be manufactured. I think this is a true statement but I have not personally even tried to document it, so those who always squeal for such will be disappointed in this article. Rather, I will simply suggest that the AR-15 platform is a very fast-selling item and a design manufactured by many makers, sort of like 1911-pattern pistols continue to be!

    Many will agree that one of the autoloader’s major strong points is its ability to be quickly reloaded in practiced hands. Skilled users can reload their detachable magazine-fed handguns and rifles, sometimes with nearly unbelievable speed, the result of much dedicated practice but also testament to the semiautomatic’s design…and making the most of it.

    …and that brings us to the topic at hand: magazine carriers.

    If we are to quickly reload a semiautomatic firearm having a detachable magazine, we have to carry at least one extra magazine on our person and in a manner that allows us to efficiently retrieve it. To this end, a number of companies offer magazine carriers intended for clandestine, concealed carried, open carry, or competition, or are meant for use under the harsh environments in some military situations. We find magazine carriers made from traditional leather to kydex or other synthetics.

    Let’s take a look at a couple from Tuff Products. Both were designed by master firearms photographer and shooter, Mr. Ichiro Nagata. Mr. Natt Stevens of Tuff Products advises that Mr. Nagata originally envisioned both carriers to be used by everyday shooters but adds that some are being purchased by both military and SWAT patrons. He also provided the following information:

    "Ichiro Nagata is famous for his Firearm Photography and is also a real active shooter in the Bianchi Cup and was the 2008 Steel Challenge Super Senior Champion.

    He has worked on this 8 Round Magazine Pouch for just over 5 years to get to this final design that he is very happy to put his name on. Original design was bulkier made only open top for competition. Had only 5 pockets and he would put 2 magazines in each pocket holding 10 magazines. Thru the testing with prone shooting positions he discovered the need of separate pockets for each magazine as well as a flap to cover them to help keep the magazines in the pouch. This is where the removable flap came into play. Final testing was done at the recent Bianchi Cup where Tuff Products sponsored Team Japan to put the pouch to the test prior to the product launch.

    Ichiro would need 5 Magazines for the Steel Challenge and would need 8 magazines for the Bianchi Cup to carry 48 rounds without putting too much tension on his magazines to reduce the chance of a pistol malfunction. This is where the amount of magazines where chosen to hold 8 magazines. Throughout the testing of this pouch at the Steel Challenge and Bianchi Cup, Ichiro had talked with many people and he felt adding the M.O.L.L.E. attachment to this pouch would make it very useable for anyone that shoots a 1911."


    First up is their “8 in Line Magazine Pouch”. It can be had in black or coyote brown and is available for single-stack 1911-style magazines. It appears capable of lots of use and is constructed of 1000 denier cordura and mil-spec webbing. This carrier can be worn on the belt but is also designed for use on M.O.L.L.E.-style vests. (“M.O.L.L.E” stands for “Modular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment”.) The “8 in Line Pouch” is more compact than might be initially expected.


    Here is the “8 in a line” magazine carrier loaded with 8 1911 .45 magazines as it appears from the front (left) and showing how it can be attached to either a belt or M.O.L.L.E. vest on the back (right).

    This is due to the magazine not being carried with its side against the belt. Rather the rear of the magazine in closest to the body. Thus, the length of this carrier can be a compact 6 ” long by about 5 ” high and right at 1 7/8” thick. Though it could be done, I do not believe that this magazine carrier was ever envisioned for concealed carry. Even so, from the front it would probably not be readily apparent to non-shooters what it was with the full-length, velcro-secured cover in place. (This cover is removable by the way. It also has a wide enough swath of velcro that it will fit tightly against magazines with or without magazine pads.)


    With the cover removed, we can see the nicely secured line of eight magazines. Note the relatively wide swath of velcro on the front. This provides quite a bit of latitude in overall magazine length vs. the cover fitting properly. If you use magazines without bumper pads, the cover will pull down and be hold them firmly in place via velcro. If you prefer to remove the cover for quicker access, snug fit and relatively high coverage of the magazine by each pouch insures that it stays in the carrier until manually removed. That they are held with the rear of the magazine toward the body rather the magazine side as with most single and double carriers did not prevent rapid removal of the magazines for quick reloads. It did “feel different” because of my using traditional magazine carriers for years but it just did not prove to be a problem.


    The LOA of the 1911-type magazine makes no difference whether or not it will be held securely; it will be.

    Next up is a compact magazine pouch for carrying a single AR-15/M-16 magazine. It can be carried via belt or the previously-mentioned M.O.L.L.E. vest. It has no cover but tension holds the magazine firmly in place. This pouch could easily be carried concealed should that be of importance to some people reading this article.

    Tuff Products calls it the “G.A.G.”, which stands for “Grab and Go”.


    On the left, we see the “G.A.G”. carrier from the front and only the left, from behind. Like the “8 in a Line”, this pouch attaches very securely to the belt. (The only AR-15 magazines I had close at hand were the shorter ones holding 20 rounds. In the pictures, the magazine is pushed all the way down. It is still very easy to retrieve.

    With 8 loaded magazines (7 rounds of 230-gr. 45 auto each) in the “8 in a Line carrier”, I removed the detachable cover, and held the carrier upside down. I shook it and no magazines could be shaken out of this pouch. At the same time, removal by hand was absolutely not difficult at speed. (While empty magazines can be inserted one-handed, I did not find that to be as quick as with either heavy leather carriers of those of kydex-type synthetics. I was surprised that it could be done at all, much less as easy as it proved to be and for many this is not even an issue.)


    The edges at individual pouch openings are designed not to fray and I would expect years of use from either of these magazine pouches.

    With the “G.A.G.” single magazine carrier, inserting a magazine one-handed was very easy to do, even though the magazine is held securely in place by tension between it and the carrier.


    The “G.A.G.” pouch would allow carrying an AR-15 magazine easily for use in a match or in the open as well as concealed for more “serious” scenarios.

    I am very favorably impressed with both of these carriers. If you think that you might be, take a look at www.tuffproducts.com and then under “Magazine Pouches” for more information and pricing, not only on these, but their “5 in a Line” carriers for 9/40 double-stack magazines as well as a selection of single magazine pouches. They can also be reached via telephone toll free at 877-883-3776.

    Best.


  2. #2
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    453
    After reading the review here, I opted to buy the "8 in line" and it arrived in short order. On initial inspection, it looked pretty cool, well made, with the exception of the velcro surrounding each mag pouch. The velcro was originally attached via an adhesive and then stitched vertically on each of the long sides of each mag pouch and then at the rear of each pouch on both sides. Unfortunately, the velcro wasn't kept tight when sewing to the nylon and so the loose velcro edging on each pouch bunched up a bit. An example of this can be seen in the picture above, only the problem is MUCH greater on the unit I received. Put succinctly, it looks sloppy. Apparently, Tuff has relied too much on the adhesive (which is not doing its job very well) and not enough on stitching.

    I took the pouch to the range to use with with a couple 1911s, both in .45 and 9mm. Insertion of mags into each of the pouches is a bit tricky because of the nylon fabric lips and snuggish fit. If you don't insert the magazine correctly, it will catch on the lips and collapse the lip edge, precluding insertion of the magazine. I found that with the .45 magazines, tilting the magazine forward until the curved front of the mag mates with the curved front of the pouch, then rotating upward while inserting the mag into the pouch worked best.

    With the 9mm 1911 magazines, I had all sorts of problems getting mags inserted. This is because of the magazine lips on the 9mm mags are such that they are prone to snag items and the thin nylon fabric lips were readily snagged.

    Wearing the pouch was interesting. The pictures on the web site show the pouch being worn over the hip at around the 3 o'clock position. You gotta love the picture of the old guy wearing it. He is inserting a magazine in his gun as if he has just gotten it from his pouch, only the cover of the pouch is clearly and securely velcro'd in place. In other words, he isn't really using the pouch.
    5 IN LINE MAG POUCH Coyote Brown*::*Magazine Pouches*::*Tuff Products

    So I put the pouch on at the 3 o'clock position and it nicely counterbalanced my 1911 on the other hip. I liked the feel. When I attempted to do magazine changes, I encountered some additional problems. I am used to carrying with the mags facing forward on my hip in the same 3 o'clock position, but with the Tuff unit, the mags face out, not forward. This means that in order to grab my mags, I had to rotate my hand accordingly and this was not a pleasant endeavor. It was not ergonomically comfortable or convenient.

    So I tried the unit in various locations until finally settling on carrying it in the front, over my belt buckle, 12 o'clock, such that the mags were now facing forward. I didn't have to twist my wrist strangely to grab a magazine. Cool. It is a bit of a strange place to wear the pouch and makes restroom access inconvenient, but it works for being on the range.

    So, I loaded up a couple dozen magazines, one in the gun, and 8 in the Tuff unit and started my drills, grabbing new magazines as needed, reloading the pouch when it would run out. More problems arose. While I realize that this product was tested by a Bianchi champion, all I can say is that he must have tiny fingers compared to mine. Because the magazines are so close together, it is difficult to grasp the magazines properly (thumb on one side, index finger on curved front, other fingers on other side). In fact, I do my magazines just like the old guy in the Tuff product picture, only as noted, he didn't grab his magazine from the pouch. He would not be getting that grip had he used the pouch.

    Using my left hand, I found that I could not start from the right side of the unit because my fingers would not go between the right-side magazine and the magazine to the left of it. So I tried pulling mags from the left side. This worked better, but still my thumb did not fit between the mags very well. I found that most of my grip used for extraction came from my index finger catching the lip of the mag base pad and the three outer fingers.

    Not only was that a bit awkward, but because the pouches are so deep, the mag set so deeply in the individual pouches, all that was available to grab was about 1.5-1.75 inches of the base of the magazine. I am used to grabbing closer to 2.5" inches of mag when extracting it from an open top mag pouch that has more magazine exposed than the Tuff unit. In my case, I usually have my mags in a Milt Sparks D-4C or S-4C (Milt Sparks Holsters). So upon extraction of the mag from the pouch, I was left with gripping only the very lower portion of the magazine and trying to direct it into the mag well which didn't not work all that well. The other option was to adjust my grip on the magazine as it transitioned form the pouch to the mag well, but this is a recipe for disaster in a timed event or crisis situation. You want to have a proper secure grip on the magazine and just one grip on the magazine from start to finish. I was not able to readily attain such a grip using the Tuff unit. Once again, the issue is one of ergonomics.

    I will be practicing with the Tuff "8 in line" unit for the next 100 days or so in preparation for the Glock v. 1911 match being held in Chandler, OK in October. Stages will be 50 rounds each and so this pouch seems like it would be a fine way to carry my mags. Maybe I will get used to the ergonomic problems, or just get more frustrated. My initial thoughts are that this is not a mag pouch that I would want to use in a crisis situation. The difficulty in getting a proper grip on the mags for extraction seems like a good way cause magazines to be bobbled or getting an improper or weak grip such that the magazines will be out of proper grip position in the hand which can cause problems when it comes to insertion into the gun.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  3. #3
    1951 - 2011
    Array Stephen A. Camp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    496
    Hello. Thanks for the very well-written and detailed review. I agree that replacing magazines in this carrier is not so easy as with traditional carriers of either leather or kydex. I didn't experience the other problems mentioned but agree that the magazines' different position do "feel" different than what I'm used to. You might contact Tuff with your evaluation. They might be able to alter the design in certain ways, ie: leave more of the magazine exposed for grabbing in speed reloads.

    Best to you and yours.

  4. #4
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    453
    Hello Stephen,
    Yeah I bought the mag pouch because I saw your review and I looked at the product online and the concept looked great. I think the biggest problem is the mag spacing, followed by the depth of the pouches. With all the mags in the pouches, the spacing between mags is between 1/4" and 3/8". This is reflected in the pics above you provided that show the gap between the mags to be less than the width of the mags. My fingers just aren't that skinny to jam down between the mags. Maybe Tuff has some sort of unique extraction method?

    I think the gap between the mags may be wider on the 5 pouch than on the 8 in looking at the pics on the web sight. However that difference isn't noted anywhere that I can find.

    As for the depth of the pouches, my guess it was done as a support issue. If they weren't deep enough, then maybe they would not be able to hold the mags securely?

    I will contact them with the link to this web page and see what happens. Like I said, I really like the concept.

    On a side note, check out the old guy modeling the Tuff products and compare him with the gun from the Milt Sparks products page (not the home page - click on products at the home page). I would swear it was the same guy.
    Last edited by Double Naught Spy; July 20th, 2009 at 07:30 PM.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  5. #5
    1951 - 2011
    Array Stephen A. Camp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    496
    Hello. I think the older gent on the Tuff site might be Mr. Nagata, but could be wrong. They do look similar, at least from what we can see, however! (Both have "platinum blonde" hair....just like me...******!)

    You may be right on the support issue vs. thickness of material but it might be that thicker, stiffer material could be used to allow for less coverage of the magazine, but still providing as secure a "grip" as they have now.

    Best.

  6. #6
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    453
    Yep, did a search and you are correct. That is Ichiro Nagata. I don't think the man on the Sparks page is, but they really do look quite a bit alike, down to some of the smile wrinkles, body shape, hair color, and mustache cut.

    I will keep working with my 8 in line. I have 3 months to perfect its use before the match.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  7. #7
    1951 - 2011
    Array Stephen A. Camp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    496
    Hello. I contact Mr. Natt Stevens at Tuff about the issues raised and here are his thoughts, which I copied and pasted:

    "Ichi is the one pictured, phot shot by Tomo H.

    I will have to ask Ichi but I think the smaller you are, the more it bends for more spacing, but on a vest you will always have that issue. I agree with the spacing issue for people with larger fingers and wonder if stuffing the pouch with newspaper/foam so the mags ride at different heights might help?

    I'll think Ichi really wanted it to be compact as possible.

    I will ask him about the amount of mag that sticks out. It isn't much compared to our other competion mag pouches. Maybe he is worried about them falling out when the flap is off?

    I really like this feedback

    I took these pouches to the Delmar gun show last weekend and even in California they received lots of attention.

    The reason we don't sew the front 2" Velcro is because the 1911 mag (point) would catch the threads when inserting mag so we use velcro and put 16 miltitary grade bartacks in it to hold the velcro on the sides where the point wouldn't catch thread , stronger than any glue. Original design was stitched straight much easier but but just didn't work. Even if we loosened the pouch the mags would catch it.

    We have made this with and without glue. The glue just holds it down till the machine can sew it. Otherwise the operator has to hold it straight."


    Best.

  8. #8
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    453
    Well, I spoke for about 20 minutes today with Natt at Tuff Products. I am duly impressed by the apparent willingness of Natt and Tuff to cater to the needs of their market and to consider different or new ideas. Innovative companies are too few and far between.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. "New" Tuff Products "Pocket-Roo" Snub Holster...
    By Stephen A. Camp in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2010, 12:12 PM
  2. Magazine carriers
    By joker1 in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: July 12th, 2009, 02:43 AM
  3. FS: Two 1911 Magazine Carriers (MT)
    By Captain Crunch in forum Member Buy, Sell & Trade
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2009, 08:30 AM
  4. Tuff Products Revolver Quick Strips: Initial Observations
    By Stephen A. Camp in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: May 25th, 2009, 11:04 AM
  5. Magazine carriers / pouches
    By TN_Mike in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: August 27th, 2007, 12:25 AM

Search tags for this page

in-line magazines carriers
,

magazine carriers

,
tuff 5 in line magazine pouch
,

tuff 8 in line magazine pouch

,
tuff magazine pouch
,
tuff products 1911 8-magazine pouch
,
tuff products 5 in line
,
tuff products 5 in line magazine pouch
,

tuff products 5 in line review

,

tuff products 8 in line magazine pouch

,
tuff products 8 in line magazine pouch reviews
,
tuffproducts
Click on a term to search for related topics.