Protection lvls vs powerful cartridge
This is a discussion on Protection lvls vs powerful cartridge within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For situations where the body armor protection is not rated for the cartridge / round being struck by, does the armor still provide some level ...
August 5th, 2009 04:21 AM
Protection lvls vs powerful cartridge
For situations where the body armor protection is not rated for the cartridge / round being struck by, does the armor still provide some level of protection?
Why I'm asking. I cousin of mine is considering going hunting. She is fearful she might get shot. She asked about bullet proof vests. I suggested it would not offer enough protection. I might have been wrong to say it, but I even suggested she was more likely to injure a hunter (as a new hunter) or a hunter was more likely to injure themselves, then the armor being effective.
Then she mentioned she read about hunting vests that were bullet proof. I suggested they might be rated for bird shot, but the deer hunting .30 calibers would be heavy, $2000 +, and would require vests with not only kevlar but metal plates. Even then, they would most likely be ineffective.
She stated that at the very least the lesser armour would at least give you a chance. I stated it would not, because that was all the armour really did for what it was rated for. Once you go beyond rating, does not matter if you are wearing an under rated bullet proof vest or a winter coat.
Am I way off base? Is there something new I don't know about?
August 5th, 2009 05:08 AM
I'm thinking I'm off base here, but body armor for hunting?? I know of people who have been "shot", but its really just being peppered with shot pellets. I believe a hunter's education course is in order for your friend.
Deer hunting is typically done from a blind (private property) or a tree stand aiming down. If the blaze orange hat and vest don't get you noticed by another hunter, or if a stray bullet hits you randomly... I'd say death just called your number. Tell her that kind of preperation is unnecessary and is a product of inexperience and will pass. It is metaphorically equivalent to spending $100,000 on an ejection seat for your Honda Civic because you fear a collision.
August 5th, 2009 07:17 AM
I would direct you to BulletProofME.com Body Armor / Bullet proof Vests. Their website is pretty good, and they are easy to get on the phone and ask questions.
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all. Get a gun you will always carry, and add more capability as you grow.
August 5th, 2009 07:27 AM
I am pretty sure the ceramic plates are not as heavy as the old trauma plates and are more effective. You also may be able to argue that the bullet would probably not get to you cleanly and may hit a medium size branch first in which case I would think a tumbling rifle round would have less penetration power. However I am not an expert and I think it is way overkill to wear a vest while hunting. I think its a little paranoia probably related to the story recently in MI of the woman who accidentally shot and killed another hunter. However I will point out she was a novice as well and as someone stated earlier the person worried about the vest is probably more likely to shoot someone else than another hunter shooting them. If there is absolutely no way they will go without one then take them during shotgun season, The vest to stop slugs and buckshot at range is going to be much cheaper.
August 5th, 2009 08:00 AM
My feeling is that you are trying to solve the wrong problem.
Life is dangerous.
Some activities have inherent risks, riding a motorcycle for instance.
In your situation, I would try to get statistics of the probability of getting shot while hunting, compared to being seriously hurt in a car accident, drowning at the beach, riding a bicycle, or whatever activity your cousin enjoy doing.
It is (obviously) a psychological block; if you found the magic vest that could stop everything and weigh nothing, I would be ready to bet she would come up with another "fear".
For me, it is a "software" problem, a "hardware" solution will not work.
Good luck and kudos for trying to bring somebody to hunting !!!
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
August 5th, 2009 11:01 PM
Thank you for the replies. I did a few searches, and found the bird shot hunter's bullet proof vest. If I'm not mistaken bird hunting is one of the seasons where injury is a few % points higher per license. Hunter's busy focused on the target, more shots fired, or people hunting together and being where they should not be (naturally the one with the gun holds the ultimate responsibility).
Given the cost, I guess that vest, not that heavy, designed for the rounds that will be in use, makes a little sense.
But that quote does the ticket for wearing the needed body armor.
Originally Posted by titleist
I'm in a situation where I'm younger than the one asking questions. Frankly, I'm an ok hunter, IMO, but I'm not ready to be a teacher. The point about needing a hunter saftey course is valid. The cousin is grandfathered out of having to take it, and at the risk of loosing a possible future hunter, the replies have me on the right track.
My cousin is to gun shy and needs some hunting / firearm training, and I'm not the right guy for the job.
Started out as a gear question, but thank you for the replies, as it is not about the gear.
August 5th, 2009 11:16 PM
If you are just worried about bird shot, even a Class II vest will work.
I wear a IIIA and it is rated for buckshot and slugs.
Forget the high powered deer rifle stuff, it'll zing right on through. The body armor required to stop that is too bulky and heavy to be practical for hunting, not to mention expensive.
If your cousing feels like she needs a vest to hunt, then she probably isnt ready to hunt just yet. When hunting in groups the LAST thing you need to think about is getting shot by someone behind you.
You need to do some coaching with her if possible.Get her in the Hunter Safety class, even if she is old enough to not need it, it'll have some good info that she needs to know.
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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