Restraints

This is a discussion on Restraints within the Related Gear & Equipment forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Im wondering how many people here have some form of restaints they keep at home. In case of a situation where a BG threat is ...

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Thread: Restraints

  1. #1
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Restraints

    Im wondering how many people here have some form of restaints they keep at home. In case of a situation where a BG threat is diffused and you are able to restrain them until police arrive, i think it would be a valuable tool to have instead of string or rope. Handcuffs, field straps, etc. Thoughts ?? Im thinking of getting a set of cuffs to keep in the nightstand.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
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    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    The general consesus around here is that we should not detain people.

    However I have a set of handcuffs at home, and I would detain a robber if lethal force was not justified.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

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    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Ok, i feel that if there is a possible chance that a BG would surrender due to OC spray, or being held at gun point, it would be better than letting him go or stay in my house unrestrained.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Unless you have been trained in applying restraints you really don't want to go hands on anyone that is a threat to you. You don't know the level that the BG will go to in order to stay free.

    Keep your distance and don't drop your guard.

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalStang View Post
    Im wondering how many people here have some form of restaints they keep at home.
    Having a concealed weapon permit IN NO WAY empowers you as a LEO. You have no right or duty to restrain or otherwise detain anyone. Your weapon may be used for only one reason - to protect your, or in certain circumstances, another's, life.

    If you shoot someone and they manage to run off, what'cha gonna do - chase him down and tackle him? Then what'cha gonna do - use some wire ties to handcuff him like they do on Cops? You may be in for some serious charges like aggravated assault and kidnapping or unlawful arrest and detainment. You may open yourself for a civil suit, too.

    "Self appointed sheepdog", huh? That's the problem - "self appointed".

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Mechanical restraints are a really bad idea........... For one you expose yourself to a great danger when applying them, specially being untrained. I have had training and have used handcuffs countless times and many of those times have had a battle royal on my hands.

    You also open yourself to criminal prosecution if you don't know the laws pertaining to detainment and arrest. I'm sure someone will point out many more issues but I'm not going to get into it that deep right now'
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Unless you have been trained in applying restraints you really don't want to go hands on anyone that is a threat to you. You don't know the level that the BG will go to in order to stay free.

    Keep your distance and don't drop your guard.
    Thanks, you bring up a good counter-point, thanks for the reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Having a concealed weapon permit IN NO WAY empowers you as a LEO. You have no right or duty to restrain or otherwise detain anyone. Your weapon may be used for only one reason - to protect your, or in certain circumstances, another's, life.

    If you shoot someone and they manage to run off, what'cha gonna do - chase him down and tackle him? Then what'cha gonna do - use some wire ties to handcuff him like they do on Cops? You may be in for some serious charges like aggravated assault and kidnapping or unlawful arrest and detainment. You may open yourself for a civil suit, too.

    "Self appointed sheepdog", huh? That's the problem - "self appointed".
    You on the other hand need to relax and not try and throw punches at someone for asking a simple question. What im referring to is if the person is in my home, not if im out in public or in my car. What is it with you people and accusing me of being a LEO wannbe? Are you serious? Not even worth my time arguing with you when you obviously have some issues to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Having a concealed weapon permit IN NO WAY empowers you as a LEO. You have no right or duty to restrain or otherwise detain anyone. Your weapon may be used for only one reason - to protect your, or in certain circumstances, another's, life.
    I agree that no-one because they have a CCW should be acting like they are a quasi-LEO. No question to me about that.

    However, you DO (in this state) have the RIGHT to do a citizen's arrest and restrain and/or detain an individual (to the level of force reasonably necessary) if you are stopping an individual during the commission of a felony. If it's a misdemeanor, you better not do it unless you want sued.

    I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone, because I think it's a lose /lose situation.

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    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    I have had restraint training and have had to use them numerous times. It is not an easy thing to do and it does make you vulnerable to attack. But if someone is in my home I'm not just going to let them go.

    In Ohio it is legal to "arrest" someone as long as they committed a felony.

    2935.04 When any person may arrest.
    When a felony has been committed, or there is reasonable ground to believe that a felony has been committed, any person without a warrant may arrest another whom he has reasonable cause to believe is guilty of the offense, and detain him until a warrant can be obtained.
    As with any tool it is best to receive some training before using it.


    -----------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Having a concealed weapon permit IN NO WAY empowers you as a LEO. You have no right or duty to restrain or otherwise detain anyone. Your weapon may be used for only one reason - to protect your, or in certain circumstances, another's, life.

    If you shoot someone and they manage to run off, what'cha gonna do - chase him down and tackle him? Then what'cha gonna do - use some wire ties to handcuff him like they do on Cops? You may be in for some serious charges like aggravated assault and kidnapping or unlawful arrest and detainment. You may open yourself for a civil suit, too.

    "Self appointed sheepdog", huh? That's the problem - "self appointed".
    Keltyke your post confuses me. It seems you are dead set against chasing someone down and restraining them. But in this thread Moocher / Pickpocket Ends up Hog Tied on main street You didn't accuse the restarainer of being over zealous in fact you said "works for me". But this guy actually chased someone and wrestled them from a vehicle hog tied him and left him in the middle of the road.

    In fact many other people commented on that thread. And most of them were praising the Hog Tiers. I wonder if I hadn't pointed it out how many of those people would come to this thread and be against restraints.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  11. #10
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    I don't think the OP was referring to anything being a wanna-be LEO

    his scenario wasn't out on the streets, wasn't shooting someone that left his house and chasing them down, it was a BG IN HIS HOME...period, no need to bust his chops

    now for my $0.02......

    Each state's laws factor into all this. Some states allow for citizen's arrest, others don't. Some states allow you to detain people after crimes have been committed, some don't. You need to know your state's laws before getting into something like this, just like you know your state's weapons laws, etc.

    I'd say unless you had 5 or 6 people to pounce on the guy your best best is to hold him at gunpoint with another family member on the phone with 911 telling them everything, that you're holding him at gunpoint, etc.
    If you go to handcuff him you're doing this alone on a guy that might be high on crack, meth, who knows what, and they don't want to go to jail. Without proper training and with their state of mind you have a recipe for disaster...for you. I've been in this situation on-duty and thankfully they haven't been too bad.
    One time was a guy that I already had cuffed, got him in backseat and he busted out my window with his head. He got the red helmet treatment and as his GF showed up he wanted to speak to her. As I shut the door he stuck his leg out and blocked the door, stood up on that one leg and was yelling at his girlfriend. It took me and my backup officer doing knee strikes and pressure points to get him fully back into the back seat. Then he launched himself with his feet on the floorboard and knocked me up into the roof of the car (I had got in the other side pulling him in the car) and he continued to resist. His head hit my forearm and my partner continued knee strikes and got him laying across the seat and held him there for a couple of minutes to semi-calm down.
    Now keep this in mind, this was one guy high on something, was already cuffed and still decided to resist/fight 2 officers. Now picture you at 2AM holding a high scumbag at gunpoint then deciding to cuff him. While you make contact he decides to fight and your wife/kids get to watch. I hope he doesn't get your weapon or get back to his.

    Remember, if he's OC'd or shot he's got some issues to deal with, wait for the cavalry to get there. If he's not shot and you're just holding him at gunpoint, you're protecting you and yours. If he flees (you had 911 called already right?) the police should be en route, hopefully close.
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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Like others have said most BG's ain't gonna play nice and let you cuff em,you get in range to put on cuffs and you might get a knife in your gut he was hiding or worse
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  13. #12
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Thanks again guys for the advice, some points to really consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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    Member Array BAGMAN's Avatar
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    The wife and I have a set of cuffs in the nightstand. Never thought of using them for restraining a BG....
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli" Clemenza

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    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with restraining a BG if they are worth shooting or spraying then they are worth restraining. Of course every situation is different it is definately a situational type thing. So yes and no from me

    I wonder how many people against restraints would also be against restraining an underwear bomber as example...
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    If you are single and dating cuffs on the night stand could be a bad idea.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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