I'm new to reloading and recently started to reload some SD loads I did some Speer 230 gr GD's which are going to the range today to check on function,but I was thinking about the XTP bullet Until I heard some really disturbing info I was wondering if others could validate.
The round does not expand,better off with a fmj.Problems with feeding have to play with the .oal,going over suggested .oal We all like to save a little $,but to me $7-$8 on a box of 100 is well worth the insurance on an SD round if I know it's going to expand and I don't have to play around going over the recommended .OAL of a bullet to make it function properly.
have other's experienced problems with the XTP round reloading it? I don't want to throw away $ trying to save a few dollars.With the .45 do we really need a expanding hp anyway,I'm a Vet I used the .45 and I never experienced or saw a case of over penetration with the FMJ,but with everyone screaming Law Suit,I figured I better carry a HP to be safe in civilian life.
Carry factory loads.
Originally Posted by ECHOONE
Use reloads for target practice.
If you have to shoot someone you don't want some saavy attorney saying you created some overly deadly handload to a jury of sheep who don't know better. Go get some Speer Gold Dots (185gr or 230gr, but avoid 200gr as it isn't too great) or Federal HST if you can find it. Both are proven rounds and won't get you screwed over in court.
Reloads for SD:
Do folks really think a name brand SD like Buffalo Bore or Black Talon or whatever stop 'em in their tracks marketing name is going to be any less threatening to a jury's ears than a reload that is all likelyhood lower powered?
I'd much rather answer that I shot some BG with a milder range load with a 230 grn RN lead bullet than a factory round specifically designed to inflict maximum destructive stopping power--with a little +P+ power for good measure.
Anything a prosecutor claims about a reload should easily be countered by a competant Defense lawyer.
Reliability? After 1000s of reloads, I've had one misfire--due to a bad primer. I've had many more misfires with factory rounds. So, which is more reliable, seeing as neither can be "pretested"?
The best ammo for range practice is probably FMJ. You could load/test hollow pt rounds just to make sure of gun functionality, but not cost effective to shoot on regular basis. You should "always" use factory ammo for everyday "duty" carry to prevent scenario gentleman stated earlier about if you had to shoot someone, the opposing attorney trying to rip your defense apart in court because of your killer hand-loads. If it's factory, they really can't say much. I try always keep the sales receipt with the box (inside it) until used up. It shows they are factory ammo, gives you an idea of how old they are (rotate and use up old ammo) and allows you to keep track of spending.
I personally "hate" Remington Ammo, but do carry and use the Cor-Bon ammo, which is loaded with a Remington Speer Gold Dot bullet, as it is a good stopper in 9mm. The Federal ammo is good, but have done some testing with them and Hornady and prefer the Hornady. Once shot a varmit with a .45 Federal Hydroshock thru head-did not come out, but did not do the job. The rest of my .45 magazine was loaded with Hornady XTP and one round of this made the Federal look like a kid's toy. It blew clean thru, bone and all, cut big hole and looked just like an old Winchester Black Tallon round's aftermath. The thing was spread out with jagged barbs that cut like a saw as it went thru.
I only trust my life when on duty to carrying the Cor-Bon or the Hornady and really, the Hornady is the best round I have found. The Hornady Custom with the XTP is a proven stopper and does some unbelievable damage in their rifle cartridges. Their only claim is "We make large, open, fatal wound cavaties!".
They do have a new round out called the Hornady Critical Defense ammo. It uses a design that prevents thick clothing from clogging the hollow point and not allowing it to open. It has consistant spead-open patterning and is probably the best round now to carry for winter/summer stopping use.
Aguillar ammo makes some really nasty .45 ammo as well for home defense. It is an aluminum bullet, scored to allow "spread" and travels about 1650fps out of a .45. It would definitely stop an intruder cold.
The problem you face, after you have been shooting, carrying for a while is you relize that the gun is only a tool and you need the right impliments for the "job at hand". Airmarshalls use bullets like Magsafe or Glaser to prevent ricochet and keep it "inside" of the bad guy.
The XTP is an excellent bullet designed for deep penetration and controlled expansion. It is one of the most accurate JHPs I've ever had the pleasure of loading and have never had any issues of any kind with the bullet. I use the XTP bullet in all my defensive handloads and hunting handloads.
Here's reality: overpenetration is a perpetuated mythical phenomenon by SuperVel ammunition who developed the modern JHP and used the overpenetration as a marketing pitch to get cops to change from FMJ ammo to his JHP, motive: profit. Does it occur? Yes, very, very rarely. Extremely rare.
I also have yet to see one court case where the use of handloads had a significant factor in the verdict in a self defense shooting. Ayoob tries to do his best but he even can't show proof of it ever happening, so until that does it's pure BS.
Carry what you are comfortable with and go on with life.
I have searched and searched to find any documented truths of cases where reloads versus factory ever made any real difference in any "modern" day SD cases and I could not find one. matter of fact I'm finding a lot of literature that says unless the individual himself actual tells them he is using reloads they have no idea and rarely even look into it!
Granted I'm new to reloading and have only shot off about 500 rds of reloads but all have gone bang so far and Im keeping track to make sure of reliability,I don't see how mass production can be any more reliable then someone who takes there time and does things at a slower pace double and triple checking his work.You don't think they have drunks and pot smokers making bullets in those big fancy bullet companies think again when you think there more reliable!
I've loaded, shot and expansion tested XTPs in .357 mag. (140 gr.) .45 ACP (185, 200 and 230) .41 mag. (210) and .460 Rowland (185, 200 and 230 gr.). As others have mentioned, they are very accurate. In terms of expansion, I've found them to be substandard, unless run at much higher velocities than those at which they are advertised to expand. They work great in .460 Rowland, but I'd not expect any expansion in .45 ACP, except possibly with 185s driven as fast as you can run them. Others have reported the same findings. The velocity range charts published for each bullet are quite optimistic, at best.
If you want to see a good account of how overpenetration can cause legal problems, look at Mas Ayoob's column on page 8 of the May issue of Combat Handguns. The first case discussed is one in which I was hired as an expert witness, involving 9x19 ball. It can be a big, big problem, both civil and criminal. In my former case, the decedent was shot 10 times with 9mm ball, and every round overpenetrated, including some that went through the torso from a high angle beginning about the collarbone and exiting the lower abdomen. I know, it wasn't XTPs.
As far as reloads causing legal woes in the self-defense context, I am aware of one case where it was an issue, but the bigger problem in that case was the defendant's lack of credibility, as I recall. My view is that with the wide array of wonderful factory self-defense loads available today, it doesn't make much sense to carry reloads and give a potential prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney extra ammunition against you. At a minimum, unless you can qualify yourself as an expert, it will likely be a matter requiring you to hire an expert, which can get mighty expensive, potentially more than attorney fees.
That said, I have a good friend in NM who is an experienced criminal defense attorney and is a former prosecutor. He often carries his own reloads in his .38 revolvers, loaded at levels you won't find in modern loading manuals. (Think "Speer #8.") He doesn't sweat it because, a)a good shoot is a good shoot, and b) he's his own expert, and is comfortable in the courtroom. Unless you are both, my advice is to carry factory.
I load and shoot XTP all the time. Can't say much for expansion as I have never been able to recover a bullet from the .44 mag... it always over penetrates and buries itself deep in the ground :icon_neutral:
Well, there you go...:wink: