This is a discussion on duplicating factory defense ammo (9mm) within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; the +P loads that you buy for self defense...who here is duplicating these rounds? if i wanted to duplicate would i just use the same ...
Array
the +P loads that you buy for self defense...who here is duplicating these rounds? if i wanted to duplicate would i just use the same weight HP and work up a load to match the velocity of some of the popular self defense rounds? how are you guys getting it done? or do you only reload "range" ammo?
edit: when i say work up a load i mean choosing a powder that will let me duplicate the velocity's of the factory stuff but stay within "safe" limits....taking the info from a reloading manual.
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.
Array
IIRC there is no SAAMI for +P ammo,But I guess you could work up a load chronographing the load and watching for signs of over pressure,I've shot a lot of rounds down range,and I've shot some factory carry ammo that the amount of muzzle flash and recoil is just plain scary.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
Array
I've never had any interest in seeing how hot I can load. I shoot SD +p+ but always factory. If you decide to try this use +p rated brass and work up slowly!
Chose a weapon that goes bang EVERY time!
Array
i thought +P brass was nothing more than +P being stamped on the brass, so you could differentiate.
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.
I've worked up to +P equivalent velocities in 9mm but was doing so to obtain reliable function from my Luger which seems to function best with heavy handloads. These loads use 115 grain or 125 grain FMJ bullets and heavy charges of Unique or Blue Dot powder.
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
Array
Buy yourself a reloading manuel, they have +p loads listed as well as standard loads . You do not need special brass to make +p loads. I have reloaded and carried my own defense loads for years. If you know what you are doing and follow the rules, they work as well or better than factory, because YOU control QC.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
Glockman10 is right about maintaining control over the load's assembly. It is easy to make reloads that give outstanding performance and are more trustworthy than factory loads.
Array
Yes. I've done 'factory duplication loads' for various calibers. With a defense pistol, one desires to have a practice load that gives the same recoil and point of impact as the ultimate load used. Especially if one uses one of the '$30.00 per 20' types of loads. With fixed sighted weapons, having a round that shoots to the same point of impact resolves any number of bothers.
My usual technique is to pull a bullet from the round I want to duplicate and weigh the powder charge. Then check my library of loading manuals (one is never enough it seems) and find a powder that 'fits' that load level. Then, begin with starting level loads and work up to the velocity desired. Yes, I have a chronograph.
"+p" loads do not require brass with the headstamp so marked. However, one prudently keeps '+p' loads identified so they aren't shot in the wrong firearm. Just for the record, SAAMI does indeed have '+p' levels of pressure for many modern cartridges, but not all. Do a internet search for 'SAAMI Pressure Limits'.
Anyone Worth Shooting Is Worth Shooting Well
Please take a look at my Blog: http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/
Array
Depending on which round you're using you can buy all the components and make them yourself. If you can't buy that specific powder there is usually an equivalent that you can use that will closely replicate it. I don't do this myself but I always toy with the idea of buying some golden saber projectiles and loading up my own defense rounds with them.
Array
Caution Will Roberson!Originally Posted by nick060200
Prosecuting Attorney asks "So nick060200 you loaded these Super Pooper Hot loads that kill the poor car jacker?" And your answer is "Yes I did, but they match factory ammunition!" Prosecuting Attorney asks, "nick060200 do you have any verified data or tests that show this?" Your answer will have to be "NO" as you have not sent your rounds in for independent testing and you do not have a quality assurance plan! The Prosecuting Attorney will close with, "nick060200 had premeditated intent to kill anyone who crossed him and he loaded these Super Pooper Hot Loads to assist him in this endeavour! This poor car jacker didn't have a chance as nick060200 became the Judge, Jury, and executioner with his Super Pooper Hot Loads! This was not self defense!"
If you want them for range time then go ahead, however I would think twice about carring them in my SD weapon! As a note I carry the same rounds my local LEs carry!
Sigmund Freud associates retarded sexual and emotional development not with gun ownership, but with a fear and loathing of weapons!
Array
It could also go like this:Caution Will Roberson!
Prosecuting Attorney asks "So nick060200 you loaded these Super Pooper Hot loads that kill the poor car jacker?" And your answer is "Yes I did, but they match factory ammunition!" Prosecuting Attorney asks, "nick060200 do you have any verified data or tests that show this?" Your answer will have to be "NO" as you have not sent your rounds in for independent testing and you do not have a quality assurance plan! The Prosecuting Attorney will close with, "nick060200 had premeditated intent to kill anyone who crossed him and he loaded these Super Pooper Hot Loads to assist him in this endeavour! This poor car jacker didn't have a chance as nick060200 became the Judge, Jury, and executioner with his Super Pooper Hot Loads! This was not self defense!"
If you want them for range time then go ahead, however I would think twice about carrying them in my SD weapon! As a note I carry the same rounds my local LEs carry!
Prosecuting Attorney asks "So nick060200 you used these Corbin self defense rounds to kill the poor car jacker?" And your answer is "Yes I did!" The Prosecuting Attorney will close with, "nick060200 had premeditated intent to kill anyone who crossed him because, rather than carrying hand loaded ammunition he normally uses when shooting, he intentionally bought these high power Corbin self defense rounds to assist him in this endeavor! This poor car jacker didn't have a chance as nick060200 became the Judge, Jury, and executioner with his specially designed Corbin self defense man killer rounds! This was not self defense!"
Your false rumor about reloads vs factory loads in court has been copy/pasted around forums for far too long!!!
If you always practice with reloads, and always carry reloads how can you be called out on ammo choice issues in court. If you practice with standard fmj ammo, and then carry high power self defense ammo, then you can be called out on it.
Array
Archie relays good information--
you want to replicate poa/poi and perceived recoil. often this can be done with a different ( usually lighter) weight bullet
a crony is helpful but not necessary.
different powders, different bullets and powder weights makes for a lot of possible combinations.
try to find in the manuals what comes close to what you are looking for and work from there.
barrel length rather dictates the powder ( burn rate) as flash outside the bbl is powder burning but not contributing to velocity.
some flash is almost unavoidable. try berries plated . it eliminates the smoke from the lube and can be pushed faster (without leading)
and is necessary for non traditional rifled guns ( glocks)
as i've noticed about others--that they do not always do as i think they will nor often as they say they will.
this not only makes life interesting, it makes it dangerous too.
For Sale 1985 Toyota Supra. one owner, 82K, will pass inspection, only needs some body/rust patching
Array
[QUOTE=claude clay;2147817]barrel length rather dictates the powder ( burn rate) as flash outside the bbl is powder burning but not contributing to velocity.
some flash is almost unavoidable. try berries plated . it eliminates the smoke from the lube and can be pushed faster (without leading)
and is necessary for non traditional rifled guns ( glocks)[/QUOTE Using]
Exactly. Slower powders will not only produce more muzzle flash in shorter barrels but will also adversely effect velocity, since not all the powder is burned inside he barrel. Using the reloading manuals, you will be able to come up with a good bullet/powder combination that will pretty much duplicate commercial loads.
Array
I am not a lawyer, but I honestly fail to see how any readily obtainable bullet, loaded to specs from an accepted and respected reloading manual, or any factory defensive ammo, marketed as 'defensive', as long as it didn't deploy 6" rotating knives upon being fired, or you hadn't filled up the hollow point with poison and sealed it with candle wax ala Chief Brody in Jaws, could be used against one in a valid self defense shooting scenario. With the possible exception of the recently introduced Zombie Max rounds, which do say right on the box NOT to use them on anything but zombies. Bullets were and are still designed to kill, and while it happens that people sometimes survive, to expect and legislate for that outcome when using any standard bullet is foolish and unrealistic in my opinion.
Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
.................................................. .................................................. ......................They Live
Array
I've been able to duplicate +P velocities in 9mmP at safe pressures using VV N350 powder at the powder companies published max loads. In fact it will meet the IDPA muzzle velocity requirements out of my Glock 26. I don't shoot it a lot because I don't need to, but it will give you genuine premium defense round recoil and gun behaviour. In 9mm +P loads are about 3,000 psi more pressure than standard loads.
Fitch
"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master." Ayn Rand
Posting Permissions
4Likes
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
