Let me get this straight...Glock reloads

This is a discussion on Let me get this straight...Glock reloads within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; If you want to reload for Glock why not reload FMJ's? I've probably put 6 or 7 thousand through my G19 without issue....

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    If you want to reload for Glock why not reload FMJ's? I've probably put 6 or 7 thousand through my G19 without issue.
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  3. #17
    Member Array MLittle's Avatar
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    I have shot thousands of reloaded rounds through my Glock 26 and Glock 30sf will no ill affect. Now I will say that my reloads are in the mid-range.......I don't load anywhere near maximum load and I only shoot copper-clad lead rounds (Berry bullets).

    Nearly all handgun manufacturers "forbid" the use of reloaded ammunition in their handguns.......I suspect this language is to protect against legal action in the event of an unfortunate kaboom in one of their pistols. If I only shot factory ammo, I couldn't afford to shoot as near as often as I do. I reload 9mm, 38 special, 45acp and 45 colt.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    gasmitty is right on. Good data. His pressure data is right on as well. .380 ACP is another low pressure round - 19,580 psi is the SAAMI pressure. (There is no +P defined for .380 ACP).

    I shoot thousands of reloaded bullets in my G19 and G26 every year. I use Berry's Cu plated lead bullets which are for purposes of lead accumulation the same as FMJ bullets. In other words no problem at all. I buy them in boxes of 1,000 at a time. There are other Cu plated bullets that work just as well, I just happen to use Berry's.

    I've never reloaded for .40S&W so have no personal data on that round.

    I buy my brass in boxes of 1,000 once fired all the same brand, not nickel plated. Spend some time with a new box of brass making sure I get it all cleaned up, inspect it for any cracked rounds, then reload it all from 7 to 10 times. I try to cycle the whole brass batch through before I reload any of it the second time so I can keep track of how many times it's been reloaded. I use my oldest brass for IDPA matches because it's not likely I'll get it back.

    I have only met a couple of people who shoot IDPA matches with Glocks that don't reload. None of the guys I shoot with can afford to practice with store bought ammo, it's just way to expensive.

    I reload all the practice ammo for my LCP and P238 as well. .380ACP tends to be even more expensive than 9mmP, at least around here.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    As has been stated here already, my recollection is that with Glocks the problem is not with reloads per se, but rather the use of lead bullets in the OEM barrels, since the rifling causes a bigger issue with leading. That is why I use copper plated bullets for all all my auto pistol calibers. As to case bulge, it is true that the Glock chambers do not fully support the cartridge, but as long as you do not make your loads too hot, you should be fine.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    As has been stated here already, my recollection is that with Glocks the problem is not with reloads per se, but rather the use of lead bullets in the OEM barrels, since the rifling causes a bigger issue with leading. That is why I use copper plated bullets for all all my auto pistol calibers. As to case bulge, it is true that the Glock chambers do not fully support the cartridge, but as long as you do not make your loads too hot, you should be fine.
    Exactly.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  7. #21
    Member Array Archie's Avatar
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    Michael

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Do other firearms that use this type of rifling have a history of kabooms also?

    Michael
    Michael, the short answer is no.

    I have two Heckler and Koch pistols, both in the 'treacherous' .40 S&W caliber. (Using the phrases 'Glock' and '.40 S&W' in the same sentence usually requires use of the word 'kaboom' as well. Just an observation.) H&K pistols have polygonal rifling. H&K pistol are NOT infamous - in the same sense as Glocks - for blowing up or suffering 'catastrophic failure' (which is why many people use the term 'kaboom').

    I shoot lead bullet reloads through both my .40 S&W pistols. Yes, there is some lead build up. In my experience and observation, polygonal barrels do not lead any more than conventional 'lands and grooves' rifling, but it is probably easier to see. (And I could be wrong. Someone should do an experiment on the subject.)
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  8. #22
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    I've been shooting LRN reloads in my G30 for two years now both with the OEM barrrel and with a Storm Lake barrel. Neither has shown any significant leading. My reloads are for range use only with mild powder loads, thus the velocities (and pressures) are relatively low. I've had many issues with the SL barrel with feeding. The Glock barrel has been flawless. I use it most of the time. Maybe if I put 500+ rounds thru in a session I might notice more leading, but my sessions are usually in the 200 rd ranges. I've had more factory duds (several) than dud reloads (1). Nearly 100% of my cases are range pickups fired in who-knows-what and I have yet to find a single example of the infamous Glock bulge in all the 9mm, .40, or .45 cases I've collected.

    Maybe the leading would be worse with a 9mm or .40's higher pressures and velocities, but that's something you'll find out with experience. If it's a concern, stick with jacketed bullets. 9mm ammo is once again affordable in comparison to .40 and .45s. Reloading makes those calibers much more affordable to shoot, even though nearly all gun makers recommend otherwise.
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  9. #23
    Member Array shooter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Do other firearms that use this type of rifling have a history of kabooms also?

    Michael
    Of course they do. I doubt there's a gun made that will stand up to pressures exceeding 5x it's design limitation that is often created by unsafe loading practices, regardless of rifling type. Here's a link to some H&K failures. I'm sure you can find similar information on about any gun made. Considering Glocks are among the most prolific guns on the market, the law of averages dictates you'll hear of their failures most often.
    The Gun Zone -- H&K kB!
    str1

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormy View Post
    I know all about the un-supported Glock barrels and all that stuff. The bulged brass and kabooms...yada yada. Well I have 1000 pieces of 40S&W "once fired brass" that Im not going to throw away. Some have small bulges, some not. I plan on using the Lee resizer and Bulge Buster dies on them.

    My question is about the aftermarket barrels everyone recommends using with re-loads. Is the purpose of the barrel to prevent from bulging new brass? Or will it also strengthen the once fired brass that might have been weakend or bulged previously? If the Lonewolf barrel will protect my already fired brass somewhat better than the Glock barrel I will probaly purchase one.
    If you are thinking that an aftermarket barrel for your Glock will make your reloaded brass more safe to use then I think you are mistaken. If you know anything about the 40S&W cartridge, then you ought to work with that knowledge and risk very little. Just my opinion. Avid fan of the 40S&W round myself.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    I'm puzzled about the unsupported case issue. Like OldVet I use brass I pick up as well as brass I buy in 1,000 case lots as once fired from BrassMan or other online sources. I don't have a .40 Glock so I can't examine the chamber to compare it with my 9mm Glock chambers, but in thousands of rounds of 9mmP reloads for my G19 and G26, some using the brass for the 7th or 8th time, I've not ever seen a bulged case. The internal pressures are the same for 9mmP and S&W .40. People make special dies to deal with the .40 brass that's bulged so it must be a real phenomena but I've not seen it at all on 9mmP brass from my glocks.

    It occurrs to me that in bolt action rifles the base of the case is unsupported all around where it leaves the chamber and fits into the bolt. The base of the cartridge is enclosed but not supported. It is the internal design of the base of the case that provides the strength to contain the pressure. I'm pretty sure that's the case on pistol brass. When I rechambered my Savage LRPV the factory chamber had a slight bevel cut at the entrance to the chamber to make it feed better and avoid brass damage which left the brass unsupported from the start of the bevel to the bolt face including the .010" gap between the bolt and the breech face on the barrel. This unsupported distance isn't unique to Savage, all the rifles have it. I rechambered my wife's sporterized 1903 last winter and it also has unsupported case bases. It has a cone shaped breech with an extractor notch, the bolt face fits into the cone with about a 10 mil gap (to allow for grit, etc.) and one side open for the extractor notch. All the Mauser style actions have that extractor notch except Ruger.

    There are a lot of Glocks, as of 2007 they had made 5 million of them, more now. They are very popular in IDPA and other competition forums which means a lot of them are shooting reloads for paractice. I reload all my practice ammo for both my 9mm Glocks and the three .380's (PPK/S, LCP and P238). But all my bullets are either Cu plated lead or jacketed lead. (I shoot 255g Laser Cast LSWC in my Ruger BlackHawk but that's hunting ammo.)

    I agree with Ram Rod, I don't think an after market barrel will have any more support for the brass than the factory barrel. Glock doesn't leave any more of the brass unsupported then they need to, it just wouldn't make sense. The after market barrel may have more lead friendly rifleing, or different tolerances, but the unsupported area, what ever it is, should be the same if it is going to be as reliable as the factory design.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  12. #26
    VIP Member
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    "I agree with Ram Rod, I don't think an after market barrel will have any more support for the brass than the factory barrel."

    My Storm Lake barrel does have "slightly" more support in the ramp area in question, but the rifling looks identical to the Glock barrel. So...? I think it's more of an issue with folks (factories?) that put too much powder in.
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  13. #27
    Member Array Archie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m
    Do other firearms that use this type of rifling have a history of kabooms also?
    Quote Originally Posted by shooter1 View Post
    Of course they do. I doubt there's a gun made that will stand up to pressures exceeding 5x it's design limitation that is often created by unsafe loading practices, regardless of rifling type. Here's a link to some H&K failures. I'm sure you can find similar information on about any gun made. Considering Glocks are among the most prolific guns on the market, the law of averages dictates you'll hear of their failures most often.
    The Gun Zone -- H&K kB!
    str1
    Shooter1, thanks for that. I was unaware of any failures of this sort in H&K pistols.

    However, there seems to be a difference. Glocks are 'known' (commonly believed, rightly or wrongly) to fail catastrophically due to lead build up in their 'polygonal' rifling. The H&K example you cite was allegedly due to 'gun show reloads'. Nothing to do with the type of rifling used, nothing to do with lead build up. At least, not in the article you cite.

    You are absolutely correct about exceeding design limitations. I've a couple Ruger Super Blackhawks in .44 Magnum. They are solid, sturdy brutes and will stand up to a lot. But I've seen a Super Blackhawk that was blown up. Somebody worked at it, and the top half of the cylinder and the top strap is just plain missing in action.

    On the subject of 'other weapons' similar to Glock, I have seen two 'problems' with Government Model pistols, 'unsupported cases' and overloaded cartridges. Both were target loads and the prevailing opinion is a double charge of powder. In both cases, the case ruptured at the bottom where the feed ramp allows the case to be unsupported. In both instances I noted a large amount of smoke issuing from the pistol. In both cases, the grips were blown off the gun, in one case the magazine was partially dislodged. In both cases the grips were replaced without fanfare and the gun was functional. In both cases the shooter finished the match and beat me with the gun that 'blew up'. I suppose I should add no injuries were sustained.

    However, those were both cartridge loading problems, not firearm design problems.
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