Let me get this straight...Glock reloads

Let me get this straight...Glock reloads

This is a discussion on Let me get this straight...Glock reloads within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; I know all about the un-supported Glock barrels and all that stuff. The bulged brass and kabooms...yada yada. Well I have 1000 pieces of 40S&W ...

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    Senior Member Array wormy's Avatar
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    Let me get this straight...Glock reloads

    I know all about the un-supported Glock barrels and all that stuff. The bulged brass and kabooms...yada yada. Well I have 1000 pieces of 40S&W "once fired brass" that Im not going to throw away. Some have small bulges, some not. I plan on using the Lee resizer and Bulge Buster dies on them.

    My question is about the aftermarket barrels everyone recommends using with re-loads. Is the purpose of the barrel to prevent from bulging new brass? Or will it also strengthen the once fired brass that might have been weakend or bulged previously? If the Lonewolf barrel will protect my already fired brass somewhat better than the Glock barrel I will probaly purchase one.
    Glock 22, 27 Gen 4
    Ruger SP101 .357mag
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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    From what I read and understand is that the aftermarket barrels like lone wolf have a tighter tolerance then glocks (especially earlier models). .40 seems to be the ones with the problems and this is why glock doesn't recommend reloads or lead bullets. Brass stretches and thins out when fired. Some will tell you they are all right and some will tell you to stay away. When the thinning out happens it weakens the walls and when the case is unsupported at the ramp and blows a hole in the brass and it shoots down into the trigger area

    The only reason I can think of that glock has loser tolerances’ is so it will feed a verity of ammo and not be finicky

  3. #3
    Member Array Gunsmoke16's Avatar
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    The principle reason that Glock recommends not shooting reloads in "any" of their firearms is the barrel. It is a hardened, hexagonal rifling barrel that is hammer forged. The hexagonal rifling puts more spin on the bullet, hence it actually impacts with 200+ more foot-pounds of force and greater accuracy. If you shoot reloaded "lead" bullets in the Glock barrels, the lands and grooves will get stopped up with lead as it is softer and will shave off in these aggressive spin rifelings. Once you have enough build-up, it can cause a bullet stoppage in the barrel-like a squib load and if not noticed, the next round fired will cause one of two reactions= 1. The bullet will hit the other and knock it out, still being lodged itself and may cause barrel damage or... 2. The barrel can explode from built up pressure that cannot escape, thus blowing down your mag-well like a bad hurricane on steroids. That being said...I have fired about 20 rounds through a Glock 17 once owned. No damage, but to clean that lead out of the grooves, you have to soak the barrel in copper solvant as it's a b-i-t-c-h to remove. Once saw Wilson remove lead from a .45 barrel using a copper sink scrubber (piece of it cut off and pushed through a few times) and it was amazing and didn't damage the barrel. I would not recommend it. Aftermarket barrels, it may work just fine. The reason so many problems with .40 cartridges (check the reloading manuals) is the fact that a .45 has large margin of reload error, as well as the 9mm...they margin of error in that .40 (which was supposed to be the knockdown of a .45 or 10mm without wrecking the gun or wearing it out and high capacity) has a reload up and down range of just a few grains. Too less, it won't cycle and you get a FTF, too much and you explode the gun in you hands like a local LEO I know that tends to hot-load everything instead of starting with the least amount of powder and working up for accuracy. He's blown two of them up. Still has his hands and eyes, so they're built well, but I wouldn't give you two cents for that caliber in "ANY" firearm. The cup pressure in the round is really close to where metal breaks. A .45 round is about 10k pressure, a 9mm about 20+k and the .40 is about 30-39k, whereas metal breakage begins around 40-50k pressure from shearing (unless it's "very" hard stuff). I'd stick with the 9mm or the .45 if you want the best knockdown power, otherwise get a revolver in .45LC as it seems to have the most knockdown punch of anything up to a .50 caliber. Elmer Keith used to kill mountain sheep with that .45LC at nearly half mile away...maybe farther...from peak to peak of the mountains. The .41 & .44 Magnums were developed with/because of his research. I prefer using a "taper crimp" die as the last reloading step as it prevents bullet movement in the casing, even pressure and better gas-ring seal. Lee makes some good ones for the price. Hornady would be my second choice. Good Luck, Happy Shooting.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsmoke16 View Post
    The principle reason that Glock recommends not shooting reloads in "any" of their firearms is the barrel. It is a hardened, hexagonal rifling barrel that is hammer forged. The hexagonal rifling puts more spin on the bullet, hence it actually impacts with 200+ more foot-pounds of force and greater accuracy. If you shoot reloaded "lead" bullets in the Glock barrels, the lands and grooves will get stopped up with lead as it is softer and will shave off in these aggressive spin rifelings. Once you have enough build-up, it can cause a bullet stoppage in the barrel-like a squib load and if not noticed, the next round fired will cause one of two reactions= 1. The bullet will hit the other and knock it out, still being lodged itself and may cause barrel damage or... 2. The barrel can explode from built up pressure that cannot escape, thus blowing down your mag-well like a bad hurricane on steroids. That being said...I have fired about 20 rounds through a Glock 17 once owned. No damage, but to clean that lead out of the grooves, you have to soak the barrel in copper solvant as it's a b-i-t-c-h to remove. Once saw Wilson remove lead from a .45 barrel using a copper sink scrubber (piece of it cut off and pushed through a few times) and it was amazing and didn't damage the barrel. I would not recommend it. Aftermarket barrels, it may work just fine. The reason so many problems with .40 cartridges (check the reloading manuals) is the fact that a .45 has large margin of reload error, as well as the 9mm...they margin of error in that .40 (which was supposed to be the knockdown of a .45 or 10mm without wrecking the gun or wearing it out and high capacity) has a reload up and down range of just a few grains. Too less, it won't cycle and you get a FTF, too much and you explode the gun in you hands like a local LEO I know that tends to hot-load everything instead of starting with the least amount of powder and working up for accuracy. He's blown two of them up. Still has his hands and eyes, so they're built well, but I wouldn't give you two cents for that caliber in "ANY" firearm. The cup pressure in the round is really close to where metal breaks. A .45 round is about 10k pressure, a 9mm about 20+k and the .40 is about 30-39k, whereas metal breakage begins around 40-50k pressure from shearing (unless it's "very" hard stuff). I'd stick with the 9mm or the .45 if you want the best knockdown power, otherwise get a revolver in .45LC as it seems to have the most knockdown punch of anything up to a .50 caliber. Elmer Keith used to kill mountain sheep with that .45LC at nearly half mile away...maybe farther...from peak to peak of the mountains. The .41 & .44 Magnums were developed with/because of his research. I prefer using a "taper crimp" die as the last reloading step as it prevents bullet movement in the casing, even pressure and better gas-ring seal. Lee makes some good ones for the price. Hornady would be my second choice. Good Luck, Happy Shooting.
    Well, you're kinda on the right track but you veered off course quite a bit overall.

    1. All OEM Glock barrels have polygonal rifling. Some hexagonal, some octagonal. The type of rifling does NOT "put more spin on the bullet" - that is strictly a function of the rifling twist rate, which varies by caliber. Putting more spin on the bullet does NOT result in "200+ more foot-pounds of force" (or even energy...), but the appropriate rifling twist rate will stabilize the bullet for better downrange accuracy. The advantage to polygonal rifling is that it provides a better gas seal for the bullet than conventional rifling, but I've never seen conclusive data that suggests this results in meaningful advantages downrange (or on a living target).

    2. Some aftermarket barrels are made with conventional rifling which is less prone to leading with non-jacketed reloads than the OEM Glock barrels. Lone Wolf is one of the popular brands. It will still accumulate lead - but just not as quickly as the barrels with polygonal rifling. A little easier to clean, too.

    3. The Glock polygonal rifling is more prone to leading, but it's not a death sentence for man or machine. The guy I shoot steel matches with put maybe 3000 rounds of lead reloads through his Glock 35 over the past year with zero problems. He just took care to clean the barrel a little more frequently and aggressively than his guns that were only fed jacketed bullets.

    4. Copper solvent is no more effective on lead removal than good ol' Hoppe's No. 9 (or probably spit, for that matter). There are some commercial preparations for removing lead from rifling, but I use bronze brushes and fine steel wool and with a little patience that works just fine. Pieces of copper pot scrubbers are effective as well - they're harder than the lead and a LOT softer then the steel barrel. I haven't tried 'em because I don't have any on hand.

    5. Your cartridge pressure numbers are way off base. If you simply Google "SAAMI pressure specs" you'll find that .45 ACP runs 21,000 psi max for non +P, 9mm is 35,000 psi, and .40 cal is 35,000 psi as well. In the older CUP units (copper units of pressure, from the crush-washer measurement technique), .45 ACP is around 19,000 max, 9mm is about 32,000 max, and .40 S&W is 23,000 max. No idea what data you're quoting.

    6. "Metal breakage begins around 40-50k pressure from shearing" is a meaningless statement. I doubt there is a barrel manufactured today that would fail at a metal stress of 50,000 psi whether it's in tension, compression, shear or torsion. A brass cartridge case is a different story, but 50 ksi is at the low end. You're tossing terms around without seeming to know what they mean. How on earth can an overloaded cartridge fail a barrel in shear??? And how can an overloaded cartridge inside a chamber fail in shear???***

    7. Taper crimps are what's needed for rimless auto-pistol cartridges which register (headspace) on the case mouth. The conventional roll crimp works just dandy on revolver cartridges and is more reliable for making sure heavy bullets stay put under recoil. Most reloading dies sold these days have the appropriate crimp for the round being loaded.

    ***If you're up to it, I suggest taking a basic course in strengths of materials (typically a sophomore year engineering course) or at least studying a college text on the subject. It's out of print, but a highly readable text is Strength of Materials by Singer & Pytel, published at least through the 70s.
    Last edited by gasmitty; December 30th, 2011 at 01:27 AM.
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    "200 more ft./lbs of force?

    ...Smitty beat me to it.
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    My M&P's eat reloads for three square meals all year long. After seeing two Glocks kaboomed (one reloads and the other factory) I quit shooting them in my Glocks. I never had a single issue though.


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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Gasmitty
    You saved me a lot of typing.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    All I shoot is reloads,one thing I have noticed is that American select powder I have been using lately,and loading on the start load of 5.4 grains behind a 155grn lead bullet has resulted in a few ruptured cases about 1% of reloads;
    When I was reloading with Unique I had no problems with any case failure over several years,I am currently reloading some 40 with Unique to see if that stops the problem.I can definitely tell the difference in recoil between the 2 different loads.I shoot 40 out of a Sig 229 and 2022
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    Senior Member Array wormy's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replys, but no one has answered my question. All I want to know is will a Lonewolf barrel support a reloaded case and limit the chance of case failure from a previous bulge?

    Please spare me the leading issues and all the other stuff. Is it a good idea to purchase a Lonewolf barrel to use with my once fired already used brass?
    Glock 22, 27 Gen 4
    Ruger SP101 .357mag
    S&W 637 Airweight
    Ruger Single Six
    Ruger Blackhawk Bisley 45 Colt
    Mossberg 835 Grand Slam

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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    I did, after market barrels are tighter and will support the case better but be more picky about what it will eat

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    The only Glocks I've seen fail,have been one's with aftermarket barrels(mostly),and ones where the owner tried to make the gun something it's not,and my first Glock was a new Gen 2 17 in 1989,I have been strictly Glock for about 10 years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wormy View Post
    Thanks for all the replys, but no one has answered my question. All I want to know is will a Lonewolf barrel support a reloaded case and limit the chance of case failure from a previous bulge?

    Please spare me the leading issues and all the other stuff. Is it a good idea to purchase a Lonewolf barrel to use with my once fired already used brass?
    A Lone Wolf barrel will support your cases at least as well as the OEM Glock barrel. It's only one data point, but the aforementioned friend I shoot steel with just swapped in a LW barrel in his G35 and actually had to have the chamber reamed and polished because it was too tight. He's run probably more than 500 rounds through it by now - all reloads - with no problems due to reloaded brass previously shot through the original G35 barrel.

    If you're not running hot reloads, I doubt you'll have any problems. As the loading manuals all suggest, though, pay attention to bullet seating depth (cartridge overall length).
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Both my Glocks I have stock and use reloads and not a problem. Neither have anybody else I know.

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    Senior Member Array FLSlim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormy View Post
    Thanks for all the replys, but no one has answered my question. All I want to know is will a Lonewolf barrel support a reloaded case and limit the chance of case failure from a previous bulge?

    Please spare me the leading issues and all the other stuff. Is it a good idea to purchase a Lonewolf barrel to use with my once fired already used brass?
    Do what makes you feel safest!

    I have a LW barrel for my Gen 3 G23 and, while the chamber is tighter, I can't tell that there is less support. From comparison photos I've seen, that wasn't the case in Gen 1 or 2 Glock barrels which weren't as well supported as the later generations. I have used the LW barrel a little over the last 2-3 years, but finally decided it offers no advantage over the Glock barrel for jacketed bullets. All I shoot is reloads, but for the .40 I keep them in the midrange and use slower powders to ensure it is easy to visually check each charge. IMO, the biggest issue with the .40 and newer Glocks is human error during the reloading process.
    Chose a weapon that goes bang EVERY time!

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Do other firearms that use this type of rifling have a history of kabooms also?

    Michael

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