Lee factory crimp die

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Originally Posted by Exsimguy1

Tubby45,
Real sorry you feel that way. I can assure you I know how to properly size my brass. My previous post explains some of the reasons one may need to use a FCD, and if you don't believe they are real, so be it. Granted, it will swage the possibly oversize bullet down in a possibly overly thick casewall piece of brass, to be a SAAMI dimensioned round, which will fit in a chamber, which might possibly lead slightly more than a "standard" round. But it will fit and fire, left as is WITHOUT the FCD, you probably wouldn't lead as much because it wouldn't fit in the chamber, and you couldn't fire it.

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In such case you need to figure out the problem and fix it at the source, not use a die to smash everything in dimension after the fact.

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Properly set up, it forms to the proper dimensions.

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As does a sizing die.

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Originally Posted by Fastball

I'm interested to know your opinion then. Running the LEE die set up, how is it I was "not properly sizing my brass"????

I turned the resizing/depriming die in until it just touches the ram, (all the way up), and tighten the lock nut holding the ram in place. The thing is foolproof if one can do that properly.

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Could the die be out of dimension? Could the brass have expanded beyond normal? There issues there to address.

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So how is it one out of every five or six .45acp rounds I produced without using the FCD, would not chamber because the projectile "bulged" the case. Mind you I went thru all kinds of troubleshooting with other reloaders to try and fix this problem when I was using the 3 die set up and the only solution that remedied it was the FCD.

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You're putting a .452 bullet in a case and cartridge designed for a .451 bullet. That will bulge brass. Run then in the FCD and it will swage the bullet (thus removing the bulge). That's fixing one problem and creating another problem.

If post sizing loaded cartridges is so awesome and necessary, how is it that only one profit driven company in this industry offers such a die? It isn't patented. None of my ammunition loaded with Redding dies ever has an issue with making proper dimension ammunition. Lead, plated, jacketed.

Tubby45,
We are obviously arguing two entirely different points.

I explained the reasons that the FCD would/could be required. Granted, in any type of precision hand load, you would not mix brass, and use consistant quality bullets, thus none of the "tolerance stacking" would occur, all of your sizing and belling would happen in an appropriate/predictable manner, the bullet would seat normally, and then the only function of the FCD would be is to apply a very good taper crimp.

But now, however, mix in all the variables associated with "real life" high volume loading, and that scenario changes, sometimes quite a lot. The FCD WILL squeeze a round with the discussed faults to the proper SAAMI dimensions, so it could be fired.
Can you feel that it happens during the loading process? Can you as a result, seperate that round to the "plinking stash"?
YES to those questions.
Has the use of a FCD compromised your precision loading abilities/capabilities/desires whatsover? NO
Have you compromised you precision ammo in any way? NO

It is NOT a crutch, or a cover up for not being dilligent in your loading method or techniques. If USED CORRECTLY, it is in place to apply a very good taper crimp that is applied in a very adjustable and precise method, seperately from the seating operation (which is why it can be adjusted with precision). As an added bonus, it will, if desired/needed, reform the odd "tolerance stacked" (for whatever reason) round so it would fit in a barrel/case gauge, thus being able to be fired. Granted, these "odd rounds" should be seperated or culled to the "plinking bin", but SO WHAT?

Your argument is valid if the loaders mind set is to ignore all normal safety/quality/dimensional protocols, and stuff crap through the loader and gun.

However, to degrade it's use by people who know what they are doing, and the results therof is close-minded.
This can affect decisions and judgements of others who may seek an answer for a specific problem.

People can say the problem doesn't exist....
People can say the solution to a problem doesn't exist..
OR they can try to find a solution to the problem...

It's all part of learning.

Terry

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Originally Posted by Exsimguy1

Granted, in any type of precision hand load, you would not mix brass, and use consistant quality bullets, thus none of the "tolerance stacking" would occur

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That is false. Tolerance stack does occur even with components marketed as "precision" or "match grade". Generally the tolerance stack is narrower, but it still exists.

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all of your sizing and belling would happen in an appropriate/predictable manner, the bullet would seat normally, and then the only function of the FCD would be is to apply a very good taper crimp.

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If your sizing die sizes the case appropriately so the carbide ring in the FCD doesn't touch the casing in any manner, then yes. A very good taper crimp can be applied with the seating die or in a crimp only die for those that choose to seat and crimp in two separate steps.

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But now, however, mix in all the variables associated with "real life" high volume loading, and that scenario changes, sometimes quite a lot. The FCD WILL squeeze a round with the discussed faults to the proper SAAMI dimensions, so it could be fired.

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As a commercial reloader in "real life high volume loading" for local customers, my Redding Pro Series dies make ammunition within SAAMI dimension and have never failed to chamber. Never had the need for the FCD.

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It is NOT a crutch, or a cover up for not being dilligent in your loading method or techniques.

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Hmm, you stated "the FCD will squeeze a round with the discussed faults to the proper SAAMI dimensions". So that is a coverup for not being diligent in loading methods and techniques. If one were diligent, the alleged need for such a die, would not exist. People should focus on assembling properly dimensioned, safe ammunition with standard dies and methods that worked for so long, rather than rely on a die promoted to "iron out" mistakes in process. That's my point. If you need a die to size your ammunition after you load it, there's a problem with your components, your dies, or your process that needs to be addressed that shouldn't be swept under the rug with a die touted to fix it all. That's not teaching anyone anything about handloading process and quality control.

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However, to degrade it's use by people who know what they are doing, and the results therof is close-minded.

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If people knew what they were doing, they would have no need for the FCD.

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People can say the problem doesn't exist....
People can say the solution to a problem doesn't exist..
OR they can try to find a solution to the problem...

It's all part of learning.

Terry

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People can learn to assemble quality ammunition instead of slapping components together and then running it through a "make it all better" die. That isn't teaching them anything about the process and about quality control. It teaches them nothing and they don't learn anything.

So seriously, how does everyone else load LRN 45acp and not get the "bulge" for which I seem to need the FCD??

And not every round does it to me. Only like 1 out of every 5 or 6. I mean I know I'm new at this, but as far as I have ever seen, every lead bullet out there for the 45acp is .452.

Also doesn't this swagging of the round, which the FCD does to these "bulged" rounds, make it more accurate? Why would you throw it in the "plinking" pile if one shoots comp?

Tubby45,
It is obvious your opinion will not be deterred by facts no matter how well presented. I said that I use it for the finely adjustable taper crimp that it is capable of, and only have it sqeeze the odd round of CBC or other thick walled brass that my sizing die properly sizes to SAAMI OD (albeit too small ID) and has to be swaged (OH MY GOD) to lose the bulge and be a proper overall SAAMI dimensioned round. Shame on me for not culling it out beforehand, and choose to cull it out after the fact, sometimes ?@%&& happens, to normal folk.

I never said the die should be used as a bandaid.

I used to be opinionated too... and wouldn't listen to anything different than what I knew. I have changed my opinionated mind about a number of things in the last 40+ years of loading. The reason for so many options available is that NO two sets of circumstances are the same at any one time for anybody, no matter how much you would like to believe they are.

I was trying to show reasons to properly use a worthwhile tool, and not just be a negative force for readers who may not know everything, or even think they do.

I bow to your high post count,
You Win.

Good luck,
Terry

My dies came with the FCD (Lee) So I use it on my 9mm's, As I shoot 355 FMJ. When I load .356 Plated or lead I addjust to where the crimp Barly touches the brass 1/4 turn at most. Shoots fine without resizing lead or platted ; )
H/D

I use the Lee FCD on my .40 handloads and I really like it- very easy to adjust the amount of crimp in my opinion. I wanted something that would replicate the factory-style crimp, and it certainly does.

FWIW, I use the Redding Profile Crimp dies for my .357 "Incinerator" rounds which I do seat and crimp separately...

As mentioned, people seem to like the Lee FCD arrangement or do not.

I like them. I've loaded for over forty years now, and I load for several types of pistol and rifle competition. I find the Lee dies make all my bullseye, PPC, 'combat' and High Power Rifle ammunition shoot to the limits of the gun. Calibers include 9x19 NATO, .38 Special, .357 Magnum.40 S&W, .44 Special and Magnum, .45 ACP/AR, 6.5x55 Swede, .308 Winchester and probably some others. I shall probably continue to so do.

If anyone has any doubt, I suggest using one and seeing the difference. If you find no difference, then don't use it. If you find a difference, you will likely decide to use it and purchase others.

Archie,
Well said. It's not "cheating" to use something that works (and works well).
(Anti-Ostrich behavior if you ask me.)

Load safe,
Terry

What rifle are you shooting the Swede in?

:Warning: Thread Drift:
Exsimguy1, my go-to Swede is a carbine version that was 'sporterized' long before I got it. I call it 'Ole' and it shoots 160 Hornady bullets over a case full of H4831 just over 2100 f/s. Many years ago, when I had decent eyes, I could shoot a five shot group into the K5 zone of a Colt target at 100 yards off hand.

I've got fancier commercial rifles to my name, but I'd take Ole over any of them if I had to do with just one. :End Thread Drift:

Archie,
I don't know that thread drift will harm anything here, but I will keep it short anyway. I love the true Swedish Mausers, their "reputation" for being weak is totally maligned. Norma has used M1896 actions on their test barrels for years. I am presently building two Commercial 1898 Mausers (One FN, and one Interarms) in 6.5x55 with a custom reamer, to use Lapua brass and their fine 139gr Scenar bullet. If launched at 2700fps, they will remain supersonic beyond 1400yds....Funtime.

Loadsafe,
Terry

I am another who has the FCD but rarely use it. My press allows me to use 4 stations - size, expand with powder die, seat, and crimp. The seat and taper-crimp operations are separate, which allows seating depth changes without having to adjust crimp settings.

I don't have the FCD installed, it is very seldom that I have used it. I use a gauge on every loaded round and only use the FCD if I find a round that won't gauge.

I just loaded 300 45 auto rounds with 200gr LSWC's and all dropped into the test gauge.

In my opinion the most important die is the resizer - if it is not adjusted properly, you will have probs (been there, done that)

I have also had a resizer that was not the proper diameter and that caused problems.

I adjust my resizer so the press ram linkage cams over just after the die makes contact with the shell plate, so the cartridge will be resized as far down as possible.

Also, if the bullet is not seated straight and the case doesn't have a proper bell, you may bulge the case.

If you reload cases that have been fired with hot loads, you mat find some that the FCD can't fix.

Hope this helps,

Jim

I use the factory crimp die. it definitely does a better job.

I've not noticed anyone mention it, and it may be superfluous to this discussion, but there are two very different kinds of Lee Factory Crimp Dies. The one for straight-wall handgun cartridges is just basically a taper crimp die with a carbide crimp ring. The rifle FCD uses a 4-fingered collet that squeezes the case neck inward with basically no friction pushing down on the neck. I have gotten stellar results with the FCD in rifle cartridges, with very consistent reloads as to accuracy and velocity, even with somewhat variable case lengths. I especially like to use it, set for a rather heavy crimp, with cannelured bullets in 5.56. My duplicates of Mk262Mod1 ammo were finished with the FCD, and they turned out to be fantastic ammo.

With the handgun FCD, I have yet to see any difference between the Lee FCD and anyone else's taper crimp die, in terms of the quality of loaded ammo. Most of my handgun loading is done on a Dillon RL550B, using Dillon dies, including a Dillon taper crimp die, which works well, but no better or worse than the Lee FCD.

This is in reference to the pistol FCD, not the collet type rifle FCD.