A picture CAN be worth a thousand words

A picture CAN be worth a thousand words

This is a discussion on A picture CAN be worth a thousand words within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Hi Folks, This could go in a number of the different forums but I decided here was the best place. We all have seen threads ...

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  • 1 Post By Varmiter
  • 1 Post By Hoganbeg

Thread: A picture CAN be worth a thousand words

  1. #1
    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    A picture CAN be worth a thousand words

    Hi Folks,

    This could go in a number of the different forums but I decided here was the best place.

    We all have seen threads asking for help with a particular problem based on the description of the OP. Sometimes their descriptions are well done while others leave a lot to be desired. Well, a picture is worth a thousand words if you know not only what you are looking for, but what you are actually seeing.

    The following picture is of a 22-250, fired multiple times, unsized case. The case is perfectly serviceable, but in the picture, the problem with this particular case (which is easily fixable) is also apparent.

    I admit, I’ve never before seen this in pictorial form before, but have seen it many times in the readings of a micrometer or caliper numbers.

    http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...20121213PM.jpg


    Chris


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I reload and I do it well IMO. Good reminder for the amateurs out there. Like cooking meth I reckon? Be careful!

  3. #3
    New Member Array thatguy188's Avatar
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    N00b question: What IS wrong with this case?

  4. #4
    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    Well, let's put it this way.......if you think you have deduced the fault in the picture, WHAT IS THE CAUSE?

    The whole point of the thread.

    Chris

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Metal getting weak and pushed back, causing the ripples in the casing?

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I'm just guessing but could it be that the ripples in the case are caused by the the use of an undersized cast lead bullet allowing blow-by? They appear to be coincidental with the lube grooves in hard cast lead bullets.

  7. #7
    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    OK.....tell me how metal is pushed back in a fired case. Metal flows forward during firing. There are additional clues in the photo.

    Chris

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    It looks like the case mouth is still crimped inward. I'm going to suggest that the case is too long, which would tighten the crimp on the bullet altering the pressure curve. The case metal has no way to expand forward so it digs into the bullet, and deforms itself. It doesn't show the case head but I would think there might be some primer flattening.

    Your killing me here, you know.
    Exsimguy1 likes this.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    That case has virtually no shoulder left.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varmiter View Post
    OK.....tell me how metal is pushed back in a fired case. Metal flows forward during firing. There are additional clues in the photo.

    Chris
    Back pressure? Don't know, don't care, just a guess.

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    Member Array gilliland87's Avatar
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    I have no experience reloading for 22-250 but i am going to place my wager. I believe the 22-250 sets head space off of the shoulder. If when re-sizing you push the shoulder to far back when the case is fire it will thin the brass at the shoulder of the case pulling it forward towards the actual shoulder placement in your chamber as well as thinning the case neck in the free bore before the rifling begins in the barrel ( would depend on the actual chamber dimensions and the start of the lands ) I would think the reloader needs to do some work on his sizing die calibration as well as possibly his OCL and bullet seating depth to minimize case stretching.

    If someone would like to critique my theory it would be openly welcomed and appreciated.

  12. #12
    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    That case has virtually no shoulder left.
    A lot of credentials listed in your ‘signature’ for such a statement.

    Gilliland87.....your point is well taken and has already been done, several years ago.

    To review.
    This is, as stated in the OP. a multiple fired UNSIZED case and thus fire formed to the chamber dimensions. So much for ‘shoulders’.

    It’s the chamber dimensions that ultimately leads to the photo. I was playing around with a new macro lens for my camera when I took that pic. It wasn’t until I enlarged the photo that I could visually see what I already knew was the problem. The case neck is too long for MY FIREARM. This accounts for the appearance of an over crimp. On this particular rifle, I DON’T crimp at all as neck pressure is great enough to keep the OAL within my specs. Oh, and BTW, recoil is not a problem as it is a single shot weapon.

    A simple case in point. The eye sees, or the hand feels but the brain does not register.

    Chris

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    There can be a number of reasons for brass to be less then smooth and one that comes to mind is a dull cambering tool. one thing I learned a long time ago is that not all barrels are chamber cut right and this can cause marks like you say is on your shell case.

    When the CNC machine is cutting the chamber the first cut will be the best and the last will be the worst meaning the tool will dull out with every cut and cause markings and somewhat uneven chambers. as long as they pass the tolerance inspection they go on to the next stage of building a rifle

  14. #14
    Member Array JustinApple's Avatar
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    I would say it wasn't measured and trimmed right, while it was loaded, during the seat and crimp, or just crimp "depending on the setup" the neck was pushed back/down and even though the bullet seated and crimped it left the neck stressed and after it was fired.. Well you see the result.. Good thing it was a tight fitting chamber/bolt.. Could of been an interesting "click boom!"

    Just my 2c worth, I haven't been reloading long enough to know much, but I've lived and learned.

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