Rifles or pistols, same projectile

Rifles or pistols, same projectile

This is a discussion on Rifles or pistols, same projectile within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; I have just bought my first press and have the beginning of a bench setup. I still have a list of gear I need, one ...

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Thread: Rifles or pistols, same projectile

  1. #1
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    Rifles or pistols, same projectile

    I have just bought my first press and have the beginning of a bench setup. I still have a list of gear I need, one item being a reloading manual for sure.

    I am trying to figure out if there are any rounds out there that share the same projectile between rifle and pistol platforms. I have been reading about the 35 Whelen, and my research seems to indicate that one can use 357 or 38 special projectiles for light loads. Yet, if you want to hunt big game you have the option to run 225gr projectiles.

    Part of the reason I am learning to reload is to maybe enjoy some more 'exotic' rounds, but if it were possible to standardize on some items like projectiles that would be great. Are there any other combos out there? Am I completely off base with what I read about the 35 Whelen? Or maybe this idea is not worth pursuing at all and I just do not understand the details yet. I know I have a lot to learn by reading and doing, but if anyone on this forum has some info to share I would be grateful.

    Thanks in advance (please be gentle on this reloading rookie)
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    Dave

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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    .45LC can also be interchanged between rifle & pistol with no modifications.

    I believe there are also some carbines that will interchange with pistols in 9mm

    mostly what you are trying, can only be done with straight walled case rounds, I am not aware of a pistol, rifle combination that share a common, necked cartridge. Oops, I just thought of one. .44-40 is used in both pistol and rifle.

    Is this the kind of information you are seeking, or have I misunderstood your question?
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    You are correct. One may use any .358" handgun bullet for loading in the .35 Whelen as it shares the same bore diameter as the .38/357 revolvers. It certainly could be entertaining to develop light plinking/practice loads for the rifle cartridge. One would need to play with bullet seating a little bit and tinker with powder charge weights. Likely one would utilize a faster burning powder for the light handgun bullets than he would for full-powered rifle loads which can use bullets up to 250 grains in weight.

    I've played with using .41 Magnum jacketed bullets in a .405 Winchester with really good accuracy results at 100 yards and much less punishing recoil than is administered with full-powered factory loads.

    Your thinking straight with regards to the extra flexibility available to the .35 Whelen owner who handloads. Your notion is quite doable. I like the idea of the .35 Whelen cartridge. I've got a double heat treat 1903 Springfield action laid away for possible use to build a sporter in either .35 Whelen or .358 Winchester. I just haven't determined which.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    For a quick reference check out the MACE cartridge conversions.

    Here's my .02. If you really know how to use your pistol, you don't need a rifle for short/medium range stuff so you can concentrate on a rifle that is useful for truly long distance and I think you wind up with pistol and rifle combo with less overlap. (Flame suit on) Rifles like .30-.30/.45-70/etc paired with pistols seem to cover the same ground. Not trying to diss the cartridges, but with what I think you're after, I'd skip them. Some like the redundancy, but I don't see the need - if I'm going to carry the weight of a rifle, I want to be able to reach out and touch something. I'd earlier decided on the .338-06 over the Whelen b/c of the long distance factor, but then read a post by glockman and am really reconsidering. IMHO, the 357/35 Whelen offers the most versatility since 30-06 brass is (usually) easier to come by and variety of pistol and rifle bullets.

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    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    .45LC can also be interchanged between rifle & pistol with no modifications.

    I believe there are also some carbines that will interchange with pistols in 9mm

    mostly what you are trying, can only be done with straight walled case rounds, I am not aware of a pistol, rifle combination that share a common, necked cartridge. Oops, I just thought of one. .44-40 is used in both pistol and rifle.

    Is this the kind of information you are seeking, or have I misunderstood your question?
    That is exactly the type of info I am looking for. Thanks! The 35 Whelen seems to be described as a necked up 30-06 - I guess that makes it straight walled?
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    You are correct. One may use any .358" handgun bullet for loading in the .35 Whelen as it shares the same bore diameter as the .38/357 revolvers. It certainly could be entertaining to develop light plinking/practice loads for the rifle cartridge. One would need to play with bullet seating a little bit and tinker with powder charge weights. Likely one would utilize a faster burning powder for the light handgun bullets than he would for full-powered rifle loads which can use bullets up to 250 grains in weight.

    I've played with using .41 Magnum jacketed bullets in a .405 Winchester with really good accuracy results at 100 yards and much less punishing recoil than is administered with full-powered factory loads.

    Your thinking straight with regards to the extra flexibility available to the .35 Whelen owner who handloads. Your notion is quite doable. I like the idea of the .35 Whelen cartridge. I've got a double heat treat 1903 Springfield action laid away for possible use to build a sporter in either .35 Whelen or .358 Winchester. I just haven't determined which.

    Ah, very good info, thanks! I have not looked at the 358 Win. I think the availability of 35 Whelen barrels for the Handi Rifle and the CVA Apex (both pretty affordable) may have made me put on blinders.
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    For a quick reference check out the MACE cartridge conversions.

    Here's my .02. If you really know how to use your pistol, you don't need a rifle for short/medium range stuff so you can concentrate on a rifle that is useful for truly long distance and I think you wind up with pistol and rifle combo with less overlap. (Flame suit on) Rifles like .30-.30/.45-70/etc paired with pistols seem to cover the same ground. Not trying to diss the cartridges, but with what I think you're after, I'd skip them. Some like the redundancy, but I don't see the need - if I'm going to carry the weight of a rifle, I want to be able to reach out and touch something. I'd earlier decided on the .338-06 over the Whelen b/c of the long distance factor, but then read a post by glockman and am really reconsidering. IMHO, the 357/35 Whelen offers the most versatility since 30-06 brass is (usually) easier to come by and variety of pistol and rifle bullets.
    Nice link, thanks. I know you shared it as a site for reference, but it has the potential to derail my current thought process :)

    For me, this project would be for both protection and sporting. The 357/38 would be for my JFrame and I would pick up a new 686 or something similar for home duty. The 35 though will be for hunting only and will likely be single shot. My range concerns may not go much beyond 200-250 yards, and even that would be just antelope. But you certainly have me wanting to do research on the Whelen trajectory. I do not want to be lobbing it like a mortar, and flexibility is key right now.
    Dave

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    The 35 Whelen is based on a necked-up .30-06 case and is more powerful on larger game. While the .35 Whelen may be a .357 caliber, there is a world of difference between rifle and pistol bullet construction. It might be okay to use pistol bullets in a "true" rifle cartridge for target work, but for hunting, at rifle velocities, the bullet would be much more likely to break up on impact. Just as rifle bullets typically do not perform well in pistol cartridges, pistol bullets will not perform well in rifle rounds. The construction is too different.

    Other common rifle/pistol rounds--.44 Mag, .357 Mag, .45 Colt, and the like--do not obtain the high velocities a true rifle cartridge does. For the Whelen, you're talking about using a bullet designed for 1200-1500 fps velocity in a cartridge that's going to push it closer to 3000 fps. It's possible that the pistol bullet lead and brass jacket may separate upon firing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The 35 Whelen is based on a necked-up .30-06 case and is more powerful on larger game. While the .35 Whelen may be a .357 caliber, there is a world of difference between rifle and pistol bullet construction. It might be okay to use pistol bullets in a "true" rifle cartridge for target work, but for hunting, at rifle velocities, the bullet would be much more likely to break up on impact. Just as rifle bullets typically do not perform well in pistol cartridges, pistol bullets will not perform well in rifle rounds. The construction is too different.

    Other common rifle/pistol rounds--.44 Mag, .357 Mag, .45 Colt, and the like--do not obtain the high velocities a true rifle cartridge does. For the Whelen, you're talking about using a bullet designed for 1200-1500 fps velocity in a cartridge that's going to push it closer to 3000 fps. It's possible that the pistol bullet lead and brass jacket may separate upon firing.
    OK, with each reply to my question I have learned a lot. With BMC's message about adjusting the powder charge, nedrgr on medium range rifle's, and now OldVet's lesson on bullet construction.

    My conclusion: I can likely consolidate with projectiles to save and simplify if I adjust the charge for carbine level power, so only for plinking, varmiting, or *maybe* a deer. To do real rifle work I need to buy the expensive heavier rifle projectiles.

    I have a lot to learn, and all of this information helps. Thanks everyone.
    Dave

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    357 mag pistol and the 357 mag lever action rifle. 44 mag pistol and the 44 mag lever action rifle. this way you only got to load one round for two guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footslogger View Post
    OK, with each reply to my question I have learned a lot. With BMC's message about adjusting the powder charge, nedrgr on medium range rifle's, and now OldVet's lesson on bullet construction.

    My conclusion: I can likely consolidate with projectiles to save and simplify if I adjust the charge for carbine level power, so only for plinking, varmiting, or *maybe* a deer. To do real rifle work I need to buy the expensive heavier rifle projectiles.

    I have a lot to learn, and all of this information helps. Thanks everyone.
    Everything in your reply is pretty much correct except for the "maybe" a deer thing. Avoid using a pistol round on any large game at high velocity.

    There are pistol round designed for hunting, the Nosler Partition HG comes to mind. If you drove one of these at the lower end of the spectrum for your rifle's velocity it could conceivably work on deer. The problem is that these premium HG bullets are nearly the same price (or more) as a rifle bullet so why screw around in the first place?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Everything in your reply is pretty much correct except for the "maybe" a deer thing. Avoid using a pistol round on any large game at high velocity.

    There are pistol round designed for hunting, the Nosler Partition HG comes to mind. If you drove one of these at the lower end of the spectrum for your rifle's velocity it could conceivably work on deer. The problem is that these premium HG bullets are nearly the same price (or more) as a rifle bullet so why screw around in the first place?
    And this is exactly what I was afraid of - the devil is in the details. I see your point, and also the point in another post about the lever action.
    Dave

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