Bullets

Bullets

This is a discussion on Bullets within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Well, I now have everything except the bullets. I finally have brass, primers and powder, but am having a hard time finding bullets. I was ...

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Thread: Bullets

  1. #1
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Bullets

    Well, I now have everything except the bullets. I finally have brass, primers and powder, but am having a hard time finding bullets.

    I was wondering... I know that there is a difference between shooting lead cast and jacketed bullets, but how much of a difference is there between different jacketed bullets? Would the load data be the same for FMJ vs. JHP of the same weight? How about bullets of the same weight from two different manufacturers? I know that there could some ballistic differences between FMJ and JHP, or between truncated FMJ and RN FMJ, but will the load data and velocities out of the bbl vary?

    Thanks.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Load data is sifferent between Jacketed and Cast Lead,plated is the same as cast lead,different bullet weights also are different powder charges
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    Member Array noylj's Avatar
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    Any normal jacketed bullet (not considering all-copper bullets or solids for dangerous game) will use the same load data. However, you need to determine the COL to use with each bullet and start with the lowest starting load you can find.
    Read your manuals.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    If you are casting your own bullets, find the hardest lead available. Hardcast, Linotype, and Wheel Weights are all hard enough. Lead must be lubed, and driven only up to about 1200 fps without lead fouling the bore. The biggest difference is Jacketed can be driven much faster. I shoot mostly cast bullets, and an very happy with them. DR

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    Well, I now have everything except the bullets. I finally have brass, primers and powder, but am having a hard time finding bullets.

    I was wondering... I know that there is a difference between shooting lead cast and jacketed bullets, but how much of a difference is there between different jacketed bullets? Would the load data be the same for FMJ vs. JHP of the same weight? How about bullets of the same weight from two different manufacturers? I know that there could some ballistic differences between FMJ and JHP, or between truncated FMJ and RN FMJ, but will the load data and velocities out of the bbl vary?
    The biggest difference is between unjacketed (e.g., lead) bullets and jacketed. Berry and probably others make copper-plated bullets which are closer to lead as far as handloading criteria are concerned. But as far as the difference between, say, a Winchester jacketed bullet and one from Hornady, that would be a third decimal place difference.

    If you look at the loading manuals (and you really need a minimum of two), you'll see that different bullet profiles result in different cartridge overall lengths (OALs). The seating depth of any given bullet affects the volume inside the case into which the burning powder can expand, thereby affecting cartridge pressure and thus bullet velocity.

    Let's hypothesize for a moment that you are loading two different bullet shapes in one caliber. The bullets are of identical weight, you are using the same powder charge in each case, and you have loaded them so that the bullet is inserted into the case the same depth (resulting in the same free volume in the case). Due to different bullet shapes, the loaded cartridges' OAL may be different. What differences should you expect when each is fired?

    Since the powder charge is the same, the case free volume is the same and the bullet weight is the same, you should expect the same velocity from each round. Out to 25 yards, at most you might see a tenth of an inch difference in point of impact due to the different ballistic coefficient of the different bullets (the BC is a measure of how aerodynamically 'perfect' a given bullet is, with 1.00 being ideal). The greater the target range, the longer the duration of bullet flight, the bigger effect the bullet shape makes.

    Does that help?
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  6. #6
    Member Array noylj's Avatar
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    I don't know where the 1200fps comes from. I know the plated bullet people say not to take the plated bullets above 1200fps.
    Lead bullets, properly fit and lubed, will work fine up to 1700fps, and sometimes beyond. Some folks have gotten up to 2200fps with special lubes.

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    Senior Member Array FLSlim's Avatar
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    Good advice above, plus read, then reread your manuals. If you do change bullet mfg or design within a category (jacketed, plated, or lead), work up from start loads to be on the safe side. If you are loading for an autoloader, determine the OAL for the new bullet using the "plunk" test. If what works in your pistol is shorter than listed in your manuals, reduce the powder charge and then work up the load.

    An aside on noylj's comment, if you are pushing lead to high velocities, you're better off using bullets gas checks.
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    Lead bullets, properly fit and lubed, will work fine up to 1700fps, and sometimes beyond. Some folks have gotten up to 2200fps with special lubes.
    Two observations here. First those velocities may be attainable with good results using a gas checked bullet, maybe? Also a properly fit bullet is a lot harder to achieve than most casual shooters are willing to take the time to find. There's a lot more to loading and shooting lead than most people ever could imagine, also there's some monetary outlay, especially in finding the correct mould to make that exact bullet that you need. Up to $200 on a custom mould that you think will work to maybe find out it won't is more than most are willing to do. Alloying lead is another science unto itself that can require a large learning curve that most don't want to deal with. So that being said keeping the velocities in the lower ranges you can make a less than stellar lead bullet work without a great deal of effort. Just my 2 cents worth.
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  9. #9
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    gasmitty,

    Thanks, that helped a lot! It also makes sense.

    Since I will be using only jacketed bullets, I am not too worried about lead or plated bullets. I do, however, plan on loading both FMJ and JHP bullets and wanted to get an idea of how much of a difference I should expect between the two.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    Well, I now have everything except the bullets. I finally have brass, primers and powder, but am having a hard time finding bullets.

    I was wondering... I know that there is a difference between shooting lead cast and jacketed bullets, but how much of a difference is there between different jacketed bullets? Would the load data be the same for FMJ vs. JHP of the same weight? How about bullets of the same weight from two different manufacturers? I know that there could some ballistic differences between FMJ and JHP, or between truncated FMJ and RN FMJ, but will the load data and velocities out of the bbl vary?

    Thanks.
    Jacketed lead core bullets of the same weight should give the same results with the same components, with the understanding you should back up 10% on powder and rework your load when you change bullet style. You should keep notes each time you change styles and you will soon have some good data on your particular firearms. Most of the time there is no differences but some times there is, so be safe and back up 10% on major component changes.

    Now, as to cast lead bullets. I strongly urge you to spend some time over on cast boolits site.

    Cast Boolits

    There you can learn many things on how to make better than jacketed bullets for your handguns, the key is the alloy.

    Example: When loading for slow speed rounds, such as 38 special wad cutters, the alloy needed is almost pure lead with maybe 2% tin added and a very soft lube. This allows the bullet to compress a very small amount on excelleration and seal the bore. This stops gas leakby which causes gas cutting which causes leading.

    For medium speed loads, 1000 FPS or so all the way up to 357 full speed loads, your alloy can be clip on wheel weights plus 2 to 3 % tin. With gas checks I have driven this alloy all the way to 2150 FPS in my Winchester 94 30-30 with out leading.

    If you are casting self defense rounds you can buy alloys that are tin and lead only from Rotometal and cast some very nice hollow points that will expand at what ever velocity you choose to shoot them.

    The extreme hard alloys are only needed at speed above 2400 fps or so. Please go to the web site shown above and learn all the ways a good mold and some lube can ease the current bullet shortage.

    I developed my cast 30-30 load so I can use my stash of 30-30 jacketed bullets in my M1 Garands, plus my handgun bullets are all cast allowing me to spend the money saved on primers and powder.

    Here are a few examples of what you can do with cast bullets.
    This mold allows for hollow point or solid bullets, just change out some pins. For 357 mag carbine or revolver, hollow point works for self defense or Varmit control.


    45 colt bullets and the mold that made them



    44 mag or specials


    357 Keith
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  11. #11
    Member Array GeorgiaShooter's Avatar
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    The data wont be accurate and sometimes the differences are not huge, or what you expect. And differ with the gun, barrel. You simply have to test and chrono before you know anything at all. I use either plated or jacketed only. If you shoot super velocity you have to go to jacketed. Like an open gun 9mm for example at 1400fps, use FMJ. Some of this mentioned in previous post. Some indoor ranges dont want you using plain lead.

    Try calling xtreme bullets directly middle of day, late morning 800-482-2103, their site order is closed but I just ordered 4000 3 weeks ago and they said should arrive in 4. Ordered 2000 230gr round nose plated 45, and 2000 124gr round nose 9mm. I like them better than Berrys, service is amazing and they include shipping in the price with no tax. About 87-89$ for 1000 9mm, and about 116$ for 1000 45. I'm loyal to them because they have been very decent people. Takes about 3 days to get them from NV to GA once they mail them. When things are back to normal again, if ever, you can order Tues at lunch east coast, and they might arrive on Fri&Sat. They will come in multiple boxes if you order more than 1000.

    I also found an out of the way place that has trash cans of bullets they sell a little pricey at 150$ per thousand and they keep me going when I can't get them cheaper. I dont think they ship, you might network locally and find a place like that. Older smaller store with reloading service.

  12. #12
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    I load a lot of X-treme Plated bullets. I use jacketed data with no problems at all. They claim to plate thicker jackets on their bullets than other competitors do, and they recommend that jacketed data is used with their bullets.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Bearing surface of the bullet can effect the load also. Same weight bullets with drastic difference in bearing surfaces will build pressure differently.
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  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c1...e_Bullets.aspx

    Berry's has some plated available for order. 9mm 124gr are already gone.

    I know OP said he was gonna go with jacketed, so it's kind of a heads up to everyone...

    and right now beggers can't be choosers, so OP might give plated a shot...

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