Lead vs Cast?

This is a discussion on Lead vs Cast? within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Ok don't flame me here guys but I have been reloading lead for several months.. This past weekend I took my CCW class and the ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
Like Tree34Likes

Thread: Lead vs Cast?

  1. #1
    New Member Array JayClark79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2

    Lead vs Cast?

    Ok don't flame me here guys but I have been reloading lead for several months.. This past weekend I took my CCW class and the instructor asked if anyone reloaded, I raised my hand and he asked if I used lead.... I said yes , he simply said "Don't there are other materials out there that are less expensive then copper".... When I shot my qualifier I asked him which materials he was referring to, so I could try them out... He said "Cast"... I said I thought lead WAS cast... he said something about here being something new thats being called cast....

    So does anyone know what this CAST is? Is it just HARD CAST LEAD?

    Just an FYI he said not to use lead because its a toxin, and even if you wash your hands after loading, that the gas produced by the powder burning the back of the lead on bullet fire ways heavy on the lungs and is VERY bad for you..

    Feel free to comment any thoughts lol

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,636
    Not everyone is qualified to have an opinion on everything, but that don't stop 'em...

    In general, cast bullets are made from lead mixed with other materials to increase the hardness of the bullet. I don't know of any pure lead bullets. Maybe there are some out there... I guess he's assuming that by saying lead, you must mean pure lead. Assuming you are buying quality bullets from a reputable bullet maker, calling them 'lead' or 'cast' amounts to the same thing. They're fine to reload with and shoot to your heart's content.

    Personally I'd take what he said and give it the appropriate amount of reverence, then I'd find another CCW instructor and double check all the other "facts" he went over with you; just in case
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,576
    The instructor is ignorant, plain and simple.

    Pure lead may be used in muzzle loaders, but beyond that, as TX expat said, it's mixed as an alloy with tin, etc. to change the hardness.

    Lead bullets are made one of two ways: either melted and poured into a mold of the appropriate caliber and style (cast), or a piece of lead rod is compressed into a mold (swaged). Swaged bullets tend to be slightly higher in price and not as common.

    To be hazardous, lead basically must be "ingested" by entering thru the nose mouth or injected at high velocity. Mere touching will not cause lead ingestion unless one fails to wash hands afterwards. The most simple of precautions will prevent lead toxicity.

    What I find more amazing than how little your instructor knows is that TX expat actually got it right. It is a good day when that happens!

    Hi TX expat!
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Music City, USA
    Posts
    2,528
    Yeah, ignore that guy.

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,636
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The instructor is ignorant, plain and simple.

    Pure lead may be used in muzzle loaders, but beyond that, as TX expat said, it's mixed as an alloy with tin, etc. to change the hardness.

    Lead bullets are made one of two ways: either melted and poured into a mold of the appropriate caliber and style (cast), or a piece of lead rod is compressed into a mold (swaged). Swaged bullets tend to be slightly higher in price and not as common.

    To be hazardous, lead basically must be "ingested" by entering thru the nose mouth or injected at high velocity. Mere touching will not cause lead ingestion unless one fails to wash hands afterwards. The most simple of precautions will prevent lead toxicity.

    What I find more amazing than how little your instructor knows is that TX expat actually got it right. It is a good day (and rare) when that happens!

    Hi TX expat!
    You are an ornery old cuss today!
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  7. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,628
    Just because you are an Instructor, doesn't mean that you aren't an idiot.

    Some of them tend to forget that.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,576
    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    You are an ornery old cuss today!
    The wife (and others) say everyday. Get on board!
    TX expat likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,636
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The wife (and others) say everyday. Get on board!
    LOL. I can't get on board, apparently the ship is over occupancy as it is!
    OldVet likes this.
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,601
    What about paper patch cartridges, ala Sharps? Aren't those pretty pure lead, or rather they were? Also, there is the Colt .41, where the back of the bullet is concave to expand into the lands and grooves... That might not be PURE lead, but its got to be awfully soft. People used and use all sorts of things to harden up led when the cast bullets. What about led wad utters that don't protrude from the casing? I would think those could pretty soft as well.

    As was said, adults really don't need to worry so much about Pb. It's really children who are developing that it effects. There is no question that led is toxic (especially when moving at high speed), but it think its sort of like asbestos. It's not going to hurt you except in cases of extreme exposure, ingestion, or inhalation.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,576
    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    LOL. I can't get on board, apparently the ship is over occupancy as it is!
    Shhh! Don't tell the Coast Guard. We're all headed for the Keys!
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,636
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Shhh! Don't tell the Coast Guard. We're all headed for the Keys!
    Hopefully you don't have any modern sporting rifles on board, that'd be tragic if there were an accident. wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean?
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,576
    It's for the Beach Party convention. Firearms are required. The S.S. Minnow is perfectly safe.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,768
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    What about paper patch cartridges, ala Sharps? Aren't those pretty pure lead, or rather they were? Also, there is the Colt .41, where the back of the bullet is concave to expand into the lands and grooves... That might not be PURE lead, but its got to be awfully soft. People used and use all sorts of things to harden up led when the cast bullets. What about led wad utters that don't protrude from the casing? I would think those could pretty soft as well.

    As was said, adults really don't need to worry so much about Pb. It's really children who are developing that it effects. There is no question that led is toxic (especially when moving at high speed), but it think its sort of like asbestos. It's not going to hurt you except in cases of extreme exposure, ingestion, or inhalation.
    Correct on the paper patched Sharps bullets they were pure lead. And the .41 Colt the concave base does allow it to expand and fill the grooves better it is also used in the Minnie ball which was somewhat undersized for easy loading in fouled bores. Wadcutter bullets (the ones that just come even with the case mouth) are loaded to low velocities and are usually pure lead also.

    Here is a website with a wealth of info on bullet casting and lead bullets.

    Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,
    QKShooter likes this.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  15. #14
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    34,585
    Cast bullets are typically Lead AKA Cast Lead Bullets.
    If your bullets are primarily Lead even if they are Lead that is alloyed with minor amounts of other metals to alter its properties such as changing the hardness of the Lead - they are still termed CAST bullets.

    And still called Cast Lead Bullets.

    Solid Copper bullets are typically lathe turned from billet stock (I believe) but, Copper bullets are never commonly thought of as being CAST bullets.

    And even if they were CAST COPPER they would be MORE expensive than cast Lead bullets.

    Your instructor is/was confused.
    msgt/ret and Aceoky like this.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  16. #15
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    34,585
    Just an FYI he said not to use lead because its a toxin, and even if you wash your hands after loading,

    Lead exposure through ingestion is very harmful to infants and small children with developing brains.

    Just FYI the ADULT human body can handle quite a bit of Lead exposure unless your brain is still developing like some folks on this and other Internet forums.

    Metallic Lead cannot be absorbed through the skin. Just wash your hands and do not eat or smoke while working with Lead.

    Hopefully you are not smoking while you are reloading anyway.

    When you are melting Lead you should have some decent ventilation as a precaution.

    I was one of those people that worked with Lead and Lead alloys almost every day for years melting it, casting it, filing it, polishing it, repairing it, joining it, pickling it etc. (when I worked casting outdoor ornamental statuary at a local foundry) and when I first had my Tinnitus I had my Lead level checked just for the heck of it as a possible Tinnitus cause and my Lead level was ZERO.

    Random Thought.
    Do you remember when teachers would tell you that you were going to get Lead Poisoning if they caught you chewing on a pencil?

    Lead pencils do not contain any Lead. I think the pencils that the ancient Romans used were Lead.

    Regardless Lead Pencils have been Non-Toxic Graphite and clay mixture for a VERY long time.
    Aceoky and msgt/ret like this.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

extruded vs cast bullets

Click on a term to search for related topics.