9mm JHP/Defensive Round Suggestion 3" Barrel 9mm

This is a discussion on 9mm JHP/Defensive Round Suggestion 3" Barrel 9mm within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Howdy, I'm beginning to think about reloading with JHP for a newish mini-9mm Sig P290 with a 3" barrel and don't know much about ballistics ...

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Thread: 9mm JHP/Defensive Round Suggestion 3" Barrel 9mm

  1. #1
    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    9mm JHP/Defensive Round Suggestion 3" Barrel 9mm

    Howdy,

    I'm beginning to think about reloading with JHP for a newish mini-9mm Sig P290 with a 3" barrel and don't know much about ballistics for self defense rounds with shorter barrels.

    The slowest Powder I have is Green Dot other than a very slow rifle powder. I was thinking about the heaviest JHP for 9mm 147 gr but it's been suggested to me I need a much slower powder. I don't want to buy a powder to match a grain/bullet I will not shoot a lot of..

    What recommendations can y'all make for a defensive round for a 3" barrel 9mm (ideally with Green Dot, Titegroup or Red Dot?)

    Thanks so much!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array flintlock62's Avatar
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    Speer Gold Dot 147 gr, and Winchester WSF, Bullseye, Titegroup, or IMR SR-7625. You don't want too slow a powder with a short barrel. Who suggested you need a slow powder?

    You said Green Dot is your slowest powder. What other powders do you have? Green Dot is not that slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiltech500 View Post
    Howdy,

    I'm beginning to think about reloading with JHP for a newish mini-9mm Sig P290 with a 3" barrel and don't know much about ballistics for self defense rounds with shorter barrels.

    The slowest Powder I have is Green Dot other than a very slow rifle powder. I was thinking about the heaviest JHP for 9mm 147 gr but it's been suggested to me I need a much slower powder. I don't want to buy a powder to match a grain/bullet I will not shoot a lot of..

    What recommendations can y'all make for a defensive round for a 3" barrel 9mm (ideally with Green Dot, Titegroup or Red Dot?)

    Thanks so much!

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    Senior Member Array NickBurkhardt's Avatar
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    CorBon DPX 115-grain +P all copper


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    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    As much reloading as I do and with all the reloading junk I own, I still buy my SD ammo. My Kahr CM9 loves the 115 grainers from Buffalo Bore.
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    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    Flintlock, a member on another website (who has been reloading for 30 years) said that fast powders and heavy bullets like the 147 gr don't make a good combo because among other things they have a very narrow useable range before instability, in essence upon ignition the powder burns fast and is almost fully ignited by the time it starts to move the heavier bullet.

    I think the man was more concerned about the bullet weight/powder combo than the length of the barrel.

    I have even faster powders than Green Dot, in order: Titegroup, Red Dot and N310. I'm a fast kind guy!

  7. #6
    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    I would like to share what has been given to me from another website from a clearly knowledgeable guy. My conclusion is 147 gr is not a good idea in a 3" barrel, a 124gr is a more realistic weight jhp.

    This is a table comparing full size barrel 9mm vs little less than 3" barrel 9mm , using 147, 124 and 115gr rounds:

    http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/...mpareP1vPK.jpg
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    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    Any good quality 124g or 115g JHP. Some are designed specifically for short barrel.
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    Member Array agalindo's Avatar
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    Those numbers for the 147gr look suspicious, that's too much velocity loss.
    Below is a test from a good source and a letter from winchester.

    Kahr mk9 velocitiy comparison 02.jpg




    When we redesigned the Ranger T Series of ammunition we widened the velocity window under which the round would expand to allow for the slower velocities that shorter than standard barrels produce. What this means is that if you own a standard or sub compact pistol the round should have adequate expansion. In 9mm I would recommend the 147 grain bullet as it loses a lower velocity percentage than the faster lighter bullet in shorter than normal barrels. This is because the bullet has more dwell time in the bore and has a greater opportunity to burn the powder before the bullet exits the bore. Powder that is burned outside the bore does nothing for velocity. The lighter faster bullets generally have more powder to burn and since the lighter faster bullets have less time in the bore they are not efficient burners of powder in the shorter barrels.

    We increased the velocity window under which the round would expand by increasing the size of the hollowpoint, tweaking the jacket thickness and the depth of the cuts on the inside of the jacket petal segments.

    Sincerely,

    Paul Nowak
    Senior Technical Specialist
    Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition

  10. #9
    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    Now that is interesting information also. I don't really understand JHP and defensive ammo, things like expansion for example.

    The data posted prior was tested with only Unique. If Unique were too slow a powder it would explain exactly what those charts indicate per the Winchester letter ... "Powder that is burned outside the bore does nothing for velocity", i.e. in the short barrel not all the powder was burned thus the low velocity.

    Agalindo, help please, are those Winchester bullets for reloading? If so any idea what powder they may be referring too?

    I am more confused than before LOL

    ... because a faster powder
    a member on another website (who has been reloading for 30 years) said that fast powders and heavy bullets like the 147 gr don't make a good combo because among other things they have a very narrow useable range
    ... and because the info Winchester provided you also indicates too slow a powder in no good with a short barrel.

    Believe me I really want to use a 147gr HP at lower velocity to minimize over-penetration and maximize damage to the recipient. I don't need to shoot through walls and cars ...to me a +P is usless, unless it's needed to open up the HP bullet.


    PS YOU guys who post without reading the prior posts are really in the dark - and tend not to add anything useful.
    Last edited by chiltech500; March 6th, 2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: data added

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    Senior Member Array flintlock62's Avatar
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    I still think the powders I suggested are good one's. Also, if over penetration is a concern, why don't you use a lighter bullet such as 125 gr, and a 5% or 10% deduced charge? Reduced charges are usually more accurate.

    I've been reloading for over 40 years. I'm not trying to come across as the expert, but I have loaded several different calibers, and powders. One of the things I look at is the primer after firing. There are many things a spent primer has to say about chamber pressures.

    I typically use 155 to 165 gr bullets in my 40 S&W, and reduced charges. Many people think the heaviest bullet is where it's all at. I think accuracy is where it's all at.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiltech500 View Post
    Flintlock, a member on another website (who has been reloading for 30 years) said that fast powders and heavy bullets like the 147 gr don't make a good combo because among other things they have a very narrow useable range before instability, in essence upon ignition the powder burns fast and is almost fully ignited by the time it starts to move the heavier bullet.

    I think the man was more concerned about the bullet weight/powder combo than the length of the barrel.

    I have even faster powders than Green Dot, in order: Titegroup, Red Dot and N310. I'm a fast kind guy!

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    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    Flintlock, no you came across great and I appreciate your help. In fact you indicated right off the bat that a slower powder and a shorter barrel don't mix.

    (I think the gent who cautioned me about fast powders and 147gr bullets did not know my intended use was for a short barrel.)

    How many grains of Titegroup for the 147 HP?

    I recognize another benefit of the heavier bullet/lower velocity is it does help with accuracy because recoil is more manageable. The gent who posted the Winchester letter also opened up my eyes because I know little about hollow points and would not have realized they need a certain velocity to open up.

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    Member Array WilliamDahl's Avatar
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    I use Red Dot / Promo a lot since it is cheap and was still available during the powder shortages. Do you have a chrono? If you are developing loadings for a shorter barrel than the published loadings, you really need a chrono. Powder choices for a 5" barrel are not necessarily going to be the best for a 3" barrel. Powder burned after the bullet leaves the barrel is just wasted.

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    Senior Member Array flintlock62's Avatar
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    With Titigroup, starting gr. 3.2, max 3.6 gr. There are some newer bullet designs specifically for short barrels in order to open up at slower velocities. Gold Dot is one of them, but you have to be careful you are getting the right one.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiltech500 View Post
    Flintlock, no you came across great and I appreciate your help. In fact you indicated right off the bat that a slower powder and a shorter barrel don't mix.

    (I think the gent who cautioned me about fast powders and 147gr bullets did not know my intended use was for a short barrel.)

    How many grains of Titegroup for the 147 HP?

    I recognize another benefit of the heavier bullet/lower velocity is it does help with accuracy because recoil is more manageable. The gent who posted the Winchester letter also opened up my eyes because I know little about hollow points and would not have realized they need a certain velocity to open up.

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    Member Array chiltech500's Avatar
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    flintlock62 thanks, does that mean that Gold Dot has more than one type of 147 gr JHP?

    WilliamDahl, I do have Red Dot. Do you have any short barrel loads for a 147gr? Thanks

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    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    I have no choice but to go along with the common thought that powder burned outside the barrel does not a thing to improve velocity. However,one should be looking for a powder BURN---no an explosion. IMHO A MID-RANGE POWDER LIKE unique or even slower HS6 would give the desired velocity without the drastic chamber pressures of really fast powders.

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