Lead And the XD

Lead And the XD

This is a discussion on Lead And the XD within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; I hav nt posted in a while so first of all forgive me. Next I have a new XD in 40 caliber and I love ...

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Thread: Lead And the XD

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Lead And the XD

    I hav nt posted in a while so first of all forgive me.
    Next I have a new XD in 40 caliber and I love it. What I was wondering was this whole thing on shooting lead through it. A good friend warned it was not safe. I called Springfield and asked the same ? They told me the same Mumbo jumbo about never using remanufactured ammo. They say never. But anyway that is Legal I am sure. When she got through discussing that it would void my warranty she said however the Barrel has no problems with shooting Lead. Just wondering what you may have heard, read or know about it. Thanks

    ps If you know a good 165 gr load for 40 cal lead pass it along.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Lead in an XD is perfectly fine. Your friend has probably heard the warning about lead in polygonal rifled barrels (Glock and some Kahrs, and others). The XD does not have this type of rifling, and therefore will not have an issue with it.

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    If you know a good 165 gr load for 40 cal lead pass it along.
    Haven't time to check in detail but I think you'll find some data withing the main load data manuals. Could be Tubby45 might be able to point you to a published load.
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    Senior Member Array Natureboypkr's Avatar
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    i dont recommend using lead because it fouls up your barrel faster, but that's just my opinion. Nothing beats using fresh American ammo
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    Senior Member Array fatboy97's Avatar
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    Not sure about the XD barrel, but as far as the .40S&W loads: personally I like Titegroup, but I'm also considering working up some test loads with Unique. If you want to work up your own loads using Titegroup check their web site: http://data.hodgdon.com/
    Be Observant and Be Safe.

    Current: S&W 442, Springfield XD9sc, XDm9, and Glock G26, G19, G23C,
    and SIG P226-40 TT, and Ruger GP-100, and Beretta 92FS
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    If you are using the proper lube and not pushing it too hard it dosent foul any worse than factory ammo.Using lead ammo is much cheaper in the long run.
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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Comments about gun warranty with handloads:

    Every single gun company out there (except T/C Arms) tells you and prints it in their owner's manuals that firing handloads in your gun will void the warranty. Big deal. If a safety lever breaks in half was it because you used handloads? I doubt it. They are covering their butts in case some moron blows up the gun and blames the company for the loss and tries to claim it under warranty. I find that statement in the manual more of a way out for them. It is absolutely ignorant of a gun company to really believe a customer will not ever shoot one single handload from that gun. They know ammo prices too.

    If your problem is ammunition related, you will be questioned as to if you used handloads or not. If not ammo related, probably not asked by the company. I'm not going to debate ethics here, but you can either tell them you were using handloads or say you were shooting factory. I will not change my opinion of you no matter the choice made if the issue comes up.

    Fact is most handloaded ammo is light target ammo at 70-80% of factory ballistics. There are very few handloaders I know (I know a lot of them) that load to higher levels all the time or at least most of the time.

    Enough of that boring stuff.

    The 165gr lead is hard to find for 40S&W. Usually it is either 150gr or 170/175gr. Especially data wise. For an oddball weight like that, use heavier bullet data and work up slowly. Do not use 150gr data for 165gr bullets. Use 170-175-180gr and work up in charge in .2gr increments until pressure sign rears its ugly head, then back off a half grain and leave it. If you see flat primers, you are already 20% or so over max pressure.

    Lyman #48
    175gr lead SWC
    1.125" OAL 4.0" velocities using WSP

    Bullseye 4.2-5.1gr 665-812fps
    W231 4.3-5.8gr 863-977fps
    Universal 4.8-5.5gr 832-1006fps
    Unique 4.8-5.8gr 911-1023fps
    PP 5.9-6.6gr 908-998fps
    AA#5 6.1-6.9gr 903-1066
    HS6 7-8.2gr 940-1047fps
    Blue Dot 7.3-9gr 897-1123fps

    Lasercast
    170gr SWC
    1.135" minimum OAL 5.0" velocities using WSP

    AA#5 5.5-6.1gr 926-998fps
    WSL 4.3-4.7gr 969-1022fps
    WAP 5.8-6.2gr 966-1025fps
    HP-38 4.5-4.9gr 962-1025fps
    W231 4.6-5gr 967-1043fps
    Universal 4.6-5.0gr 1000-1065fps


    Winchester pamphlet
    170gr lead
    1.135" OAL 4.0" barrel using WSP primer
    WSF 6.2gr 1090fps MAX LOAD REDUCE 10% (5.6gr) TO START

    I don't load 40S&W but use a ton of WSF in 10mm Auto (and 45 Auto) for lead. Very, very lead friendly. Unique and WSF are very good with lead and both meter very well.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureboypkr View Post
    i dont recommend using lead because it fouls up your barrel faster, but that's just my opinion. Nothing beats using fresh American ammo
    A properly fitted lead bullet will not foul a bore. I shoot tens of thousands of rounds of ammo loaded with home cast lead every year and do not have any issues.

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    Senior Member Array Natureboypkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    A properly fitted lead bullet will not foul a bore. I shoot tens of thousands of rounds of ammo loaded with home cast lead every year and do not have any issues.
    you are prob. one of the few, many guys I know from the range and I attend two different ones, told me lead bullets fouled up their guns faster. Im not saying you are wrong either.
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    Member Array Danger Mouse's Avatar
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    I was warned about lead too with my HK and Glock. Just have to clean them a bit more, but it works fine.
    Think twice
    Buy once!

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureboypkr View Post
    you are prob. one of the few, many guys I know from the range and I attend two different ones, told me lead bullets fouled up their guns faster. Im not saying you are wrong either.
    Soft lead at high velocities will foul a bore expeditiously, but hard cast lead at target velocities will not.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natureboypkr View Post
    you are prob. one of the few, many guys I know from the range and I attend two different ones, told me lead bullets fouled up their guns faster. Im not saying you are wrong either.
    Probably because:

    1: The bullet was too hard for their velocity.

    2: The bullet was too soft for their velocity.

    3: The bullet was not matched to groove diameter.

    4: The bullet was not matched to throat diameter (revolvers).

    5: The powder they chose is too hot for lead and smokes like crazy.

    6: Their bullet lube is not up to the task.

    7: They are not properly maintaining the weapon.

    8: The alloy mixture was not matched for the velocity or purpose.


    There is more to shooting lead than stuffing a bullet in a case. The shooters that have problems usually do not understand lead bullets nor want to take the time to learn. They want to shoot cheap bullets period. Shooting lead is a lot different than shooting jacketed bullets. Even more so in rifles.

    Bullet companies compensate for this by offering harder than needed bullets. They also ship bullets. Bullet companies use harder bullets more for damage control in transit than for actual "it's a better bullet" reasoning.

    To figure out the proper hardness for complete obturation (sealing the bore when the lead bullet expands under chamber pressure), take the chamber pressure you are operating at and divide it by 1422. In the above example, let's take the max pressure for the 10mm which is 37,500psi. Dividing that by 1422 yields 26.37, telling me if I want to get complete obturation and eliminate leading, my bullet needs to be 26 BHN. However, with lead you will get less pressure, so pressure might be perhaps 33-34K psi with the same powder loaded max. You can select a powder that obtains similar velocities but offers less pressure.

    AA#9 is a good powder for magnum lead. A full charge of 17.5gr with a 135gr jacketed Nosler yields only 30,000 psi- a full 7500psi less than the MAP of the cartridge- and this is with a max load. Too get an idea of a lead friendly powder, look at the pressure data in the load manuals. The powders that get good velocity but are operating at less pressure are good ones to try.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Tubby45 When I grow up I want to be just like you. where did you learn all that stuff. You must have been doin this for a while. Thanks for the info. I am a Newbie learning on 3 single stage presses giving to me by a man trying to pass it on. thanks

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    Senior Member Array Freedomofchoice's Avatar
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    Here's what you've been looking for. I use hard cast 165 Gr. truncated cone lead bullets. Have gotten great results with these two loads:

    Hp-38 / w-231 - 4.5 grains
    WSF - 5.2 grains

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    Tubby45 When I grow up I want to be just like you. where did you learn all that stuff. You must have been doin this for a while. Thanks for the info. I am a Newbie learning on 3 single stage presses giving to me by a man trying to pass it on. thanks
    Not really, I'm only 26yo. Reloading a little over a year and casting a little less than that.

    Thanks for the compliment.

    ETA: For most applications a bullet in the 15 BHN range will suit most needs from pistol to rifle. This is known as the Lyman #2 alloy. Most of my casting is done to this level or a little softer. I have been experimenting with harder alloys like straight linotype (22 BHN) or water dropped bullets of WW alloy.

    The technique is to drop the bullets out of the mold into a bucket of water instead of onto a towel or similar. When bullets get released from the mold, they are still several hundred degrees hot and can sometimes deform if struck hard enough. Just toss it back in the pot and melt it again. No biggie, but is a PITA if all your bullets are deformed.

    The water dropping technique is like color case hardening is to steel alloys. Heat steel up red hot then quenching it in oil will harded the alloy to an extent. Same principles at work here. You can use WW alloy and water drop to nearly 15 BHN; WWs are about a 11-12 BHN, so water quenching will raise the BHN a potential 2-3 BHN.

    You can also heat treat it. To do this size the bullets and apply gas checks if needed. NO lube. Just size. Then place them nose up in the oven on 400 for a half hour or so. Then either water quench them or let them cool. Then to lube use a sizer die .001" bigger than before so you apply lube but don't work the bullet sides. You can heat treat WW alloy bullets to over 30 BHN using this method.

    Oregon Trail "Lasercast" bullets have a BHN of 24. Normal cast bullets are 15 BHN and copper jacketed bullets are about 50 BHN.

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