Bullet ogive

This is a discussion on Bullet ogive within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; I'm trying to figure out a measurement sent to me for a 22-250 handload. He stated: bullets seated to 2.0195" Case head to bullet ogive. ...

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Thread: Bullet ogive

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Bullet ogive

    I'm trying to figure out a measurement sent to me for a 22-250 handload. He stated:
    bullets seated to
    2.0195" Case head to bullet ogive.
    OA length stated in the Lee reload manual is 2.350, so what am I missing?
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

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    OA length is the length of the bullet from the base to the very end of the bullet.

    Since all bullets have different ogives, bullets with the same OAL but different bullets will seat differently and be closer to or further away from the rifling.
    This can and will affect accuracy.

    The bullet ogive is the curve of the bullet. This length is different and is where the radius of the bullet curve goes from the flat to the beggining of the curve.

    The base of the bullet is parralell. Where it starts to curve is the "ogive".

    Clear as mud?
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    While the OAL of the cartridge is listed as x.xxx, the ogive is where the bullet measures the bore diameter (in your case for the 22-250) .224". From bullet tip to ogive will be different depending on the weight and design of the bullet. For instance, a 45gr hp, a 53gr blitz, a 55gr vmax, etc..... will all be different in the measurements from tip to ogive. One needs a chamber length gauge with a caliber specific modified case to determine seating depth of the bullet from the lands of the rifling, and that seating depth is from the ogive (which is the part of the bullet that first contacts the rifling). One also needs the caliber specific gauge that would attach to the caliper to determine the case to ogive measurement. Once these measurements are determined, you can use the OAL length you end up with after the bullet is seated using the ogive measurement. I have seated bullets in empty cases I use to keep my measurements and zero my tools for the different bullets I use. They were seated using the ogive measurement for my particular rifle from lands to -.004 to -.006. Now I can use the OAL length from case head to tip of bullet. Remember! The information given you was for a particular bullet! Make sure you are using the same bullet for which the information was given.

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    Make sure you are using the same bullet for which the information was given.
    That is the key. A different bullet will not use the same measurement.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #5
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    So if you do not have the tools for the ogive measurements, stick with the OAL listed in the load book. These are generic measurements designed to work in any rifle chambered for that particular cartridge with safety margins built in. (conservative) Accuracy will also be generic in that instance. Once you get to the point you want to 'tune for accuracy', you can experiment with seating the bullet closer to or further from the lands. As compared to factory loads, usually closer, but not touching the lands. You will then also need those tools I had previously mentioned.

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    A simple way to determine seating depth is to seat a bullet in an empty case, be sure to just seat it enough to hold the bullet. Chamber the round and carefully extract it. Using the round you just extracted carefully adjust the seating die to just touch the bullet and backoff the seating stem 1/8 to turn. I have found this method works well for the best accuracy without pushing the pressures too high. PS: be sure to mark the ammo as to which weapon it is loaded for since chamber sizes do vary from one weapon to another.

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    And make sure that it is short enough to cycle through the magazine. On some rifles that have a long throat, doing this will make it too long to fit through the magazine.
    Last edited by HotGuns; March 6th, 2008 at 08:36 AM.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    I was told to seat a bullet long then, paint the ogive area of the bullet & let it dry. Then carefully try to chamber it. If it rubs the paint , it needs to seat slightly deeper. (so it doesn't touch the lands and grooves )
    It takes a bit of time but seems to work well. As said, make sure the round still fits the mag and will cycle properly.
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    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! Since I don't yet have the tools that I need to make the measurements, I was going to try Rocky's recipe, I have some of my girlfriends fingernail polish she left in my truck. I take it that the ogive should be just shy of the lands.
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

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    Actually, black magic marker is the best. Fingernail polish tends to chip off. A good starting point is .010 off of the lands.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #11
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    One way to measure if you dont have the tools...

    Your die is a 7/8-14 TPI die...as all are.

    That means that 1 rotation of the die will move it exactly .071 thousanths. Since you lock nut has 6 "flats" on it, moving it the length one flat will be .0118 or almost 12 thousanths.

    Load a long bullet, coat it with black marker, run it through your action, letting the leverage of the bolt seat the bullet, pull the bullet out and put it in your press, and very gently turn the die down until it just touches the bullet. Now, turn it one more flat past that and it'll be about .012 off of the lands.

    Recoat it again and run it through the action just to be sure. If the black on the bullet shows no rifling marks your are there.

    BTW, dont use a live bullet to do this. No primer or powder is the way to go here. No sense making it more dangerous than it needs to be. When you are making a dummy bullet to check length, never, ever a use primer or powder.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Indeed-you can use the chamber method (I'd go with the black magic marker), but if you feel resistance closing the bolt, I wouldn't force the issue. The lands may engrave the bullet a bit. As some have suggested--making sure the round fits the magazine is utmost important. (Why I love my Savage long action.) One added note about the lighter bullets available in your caliber. Lighter bullets are generally shorter than their heavier counterparts. Those lighter bullets when 'run out' toward the rifling, will not seat as deeply into the case neck! I can't remember where I heard or read about how much a bullet should seat into the cartridge neck, but I am thinking that the same diameter of the bullet was suggested. That is to say: .224 inches into the neck for the .224" bullet. I know-it seems like alot, but you want enough to maintain perfect alignment of the case/bullet as much as possible. My most difficult load to do that would be the 110gr hp in my .308. I think I have about .112" into the neck for my loading, but it's a solid base and not a boat tail. The term I was looking for the other day about the device that attaches to the caliper for the ogive measure would be 'comparator'. By the way--I loaded 3 different cartridges for my 22-250 before I ever fired the first round out of her. While I'll reload some of the factory brass cases, my loads are all made with nickel plated cases for durability.

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    I used to use nickle cases but they tend to split much quicker than the brass ones. The nickle plating is brittle and it just wont take the working that the brass does. They do look good though.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I used to use nickle cases but they tend to split much quicker than the brass ones. The nickle plating is brittle and it just wont take the working that the brass does. They do look good though.
    Just as with functional/reliable pistols----looks are not our concern. My choice for the nickel cases is in the 22-250 only among my three reloading calibers. I neck size the virgin cases before loading, and only neck size for their useful life which in all likelihood won't see a fifth loading. I have also never crimped any of my cartridges, and have seen more neck splits in brass cases from being too thin on one side. I have yet to trim one of the nickel plated 22-250 cases after a third loading as they seem to hold their spec better than the brass cases. This is also something for the new reloader to consider in the future---a case length gauge and trimmer.

  16. #15
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    Looks are my concern.
    My stuff is beautiful. If it aint it gets chunked.
    I have no use for ugly brass or ugly reloads.

    I have had nickel cases split on the first shot. I used to buy them in bulk quantities because they were easier to find in the grass. After culling many of them at each reloading session, I finally went back to brass.

    Actually, I would invest in a dial caliper first before I bought a case length gauge.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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