Need information on Hodgdon....

Need information on Hodgdon....

This is a discussion on Need information on Hodgdon.... within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Does anybody have any knowledge of HS-6 vs WIN-540? I realize the WIN-540 is discontinued, but I read somewhere on the Hodgdon site that the ...

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Thread: Need information on Hodgdon....

  1. #1
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Need information on Hodgdon....

    Does anybody have any knowledge of HS-6 vs WIN-540? I realize the WIN-540 is discontinued, but I read somewhere on the Hodgdon site that the HS-6 powder is identical to the WIN-540. Anybody out there ever cross reload these powders/data?
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Sorry, but I can't see the need to know this unless you have a huge supply of W-540 on hand and can't find loading data. HS-6 data is readily available if that's the powder you have so why not just use data for it instead of trying to cross-reference some other powder type?

    Hoss
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  3. #3
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    If they are indeed the same powder... why the different velocities and load factors? Thats why.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    My point is that unless you're trying to find loads for a discontinued powder (W-540), it's irrelevant. Variances are not uncommon. For HS-6 with a 9mm 125 gr. Sierra bullet, Hodgdon (from their online data section) lists a start load of 6.4 gr. to a max of 6.8 gr. with velocities running from 1131-1169 fps. For the same bullet, same powder, Sierra (in their #5 manual), lists a start load of 5.4 gr. to a max of 6.6 gr. with velocities ranging from 950-1150 fps.

    It boils down to use the correct data for the correct powder. Whether HS-6 is supposed to be the same as W-540 doesn't matter. Use the correct data ONLY. I can find several different powders from different manufacturers with similar burn rates where the load data would be very close or even identical, but that doesn't mean it's a wise thing to substitute one's data for the other.

    Hoss
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  5. #5
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Ok, I see what you are saying.

    What if I find a bullet that I want to load from XYZ company. They are listed in my load data sheet with a number of powders from different companies with corresponding data. WIN-540 is listed and I have 0 of the other powders listed. My question would be.... could the HS-6 powder be used with the WIN-540 data?

    I did find the Hodgdon website that states unequivocally that WIN-540 and HS-6 are in fact the same powder. Thats why I began wondering about this.

    Again, I'm new to reloading and although I have the equipment all set up I don't want to load any ammunition until I have my questions put to rest and I feel confident that I am being safe. I'm currently re-reading my manuals and reviewing as many data sets as I can to understand the relationships between pressure, weight, burn rates, differing brands of components ect.

    I'm trying to assemble the powders I would most often use based on the calibers I want to reload from. Some of my first choices are not readily available here and I'm trying to be shrewd in what I can obtain as being as much as possible... a broad spectrum powder.

    Your input is invaluable and I thank you for taking the time to help a new guy and bearing with questions that although are clear to an experienced hand... might be and are puzzling to me.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Hogdon HP 38 And Win 231 Are suppose to be the same also! That wouldn t suprise me. Not positve, I would investigate The Load Data. Maybe even Call them.
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    I have to go with Hoss on this one. For all intents and reloading purposes treat all powders DIFFERENTLY and go against published data in manuals.
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  8. #8
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Right, but the data I have is from the powder companies themselves. Makes me wonder. Gonna call Hodgdon tomorrow and see if I can get them to explain to me.... should be interesting. I'll post it here when I get some company info. Thanks for all of the replies.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiddyUpGo View Post
    Ok, I see what you are saying.

    What if I find a bullet that I want to load from XYZ company. They are listed in my load data sheet with a number of powders from different companies with corresponding data. WIN-540 is listed and I have 0 of the other powders listed. My question would be.... could the HS-6 powder be used with the WIN-540 data?...................
    I've been loading for a while (35+ years) and the odds of this happening are infinitesimal. Any currently produced bullet is going to have data available for current powders.

    And on this subject, the only two things important about the bullet are weight and material (lead or jacketed). It really makes no difference whether it's a Hornady 124 gr. HP or a Speer 124 gr. HP. Data is available by bullet weight and composition. While most manuals will list the bullet manufacturer, that isn't really needed information. You'll see as much or more change in velocities and pressures from a difference in who made the primer than in who makes the bullet.

    As I said originally, unless you have a huge supply of W-540, this is really a non-issue. I subscribe to LoadData.com (they currently have over 182,202 loads in their database) and a quick search of 9mm loads using W-540 produced a total of 6 loads using only two different bullets. A search on 9mm loads using HS-6 produces probably over a 100 loads with multiple bullets (more than I'm willing to spend the time to count). A search on 9mm at HandLoads.com produced zero results for W-540.

    Hoss
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  10. #10
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    I've been loading for a while (35+ years) and the odds of this happening are infinitesimal. Any currently produced bullet is going to have data available for current powders.

    And on this subject, the only two things important about the bullet are weight and material (lead or jacketed). It really makes no difference whether it's a Hornady 124 gr. HP or a Speer 124 gr. HP. Data is available by bullet weight and composition. While most manuals will list the bullet manufacturer, that isn't really needed information. You'll see as much or more change in velocities and pressures from a difference in who made the primer than in who makes the bullet.

    As I said originally, unless you have a huge supply of W-540, this is really a non-issue. I subscribe to LoadData.com (they currently have over 182,202 loads in their database) and a quick search of 9mm loads using W-540 produced a total of 6 loads using only two different bullets. A search on 9mm loads using HS-6 produces probably over a 100 loads with multiple bullets (more than I'm willing to spend the time to count). A search on 9mm at HandLoads.com produced zero results for W-540.

    Hoss
    See there ya go again. You answered a question I had in my mind on bullet composition that I hadn't even asked about yet. Crossed that one off!

    I agree... I have no WIN-540 and don't need to worry about it. Just got side tracked. I've been reading so much info and trying to figure out way too much stuff at once. I just want to be safe and do it right the first time.

    I think I'll just start out loading some .38 specials that I have brass for and take my time. I'll pick out some bullets tomorrow in Phoenix while shopping around. Questions as they arise will follow.

    I went to the website you listed and it looks great. I've bookmarked it for ref. Thanks.

    Just keep banging me on the head.... I come around eventually.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    HS-6 and WW540 are the exact same powders.

    The differences you see in reloading manuals are the result of testing equipment and time. The WW540 loadings pe-date the HS-6 loadings because Hodgdon did not purchase the powder from the manufacturer untill after Winchester/Western discontinued it. And Hodgdon did not include the loadings until after they started buying the powder from the producer.

    The same is true of HS-7 and WW571-----they are one and the same powders.

  12. #12
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    I've been loading for a while (35+ years) and the odds of this happening are infinitesimal. Any currently produced bullet is going to have data available for current powders.

    And on this subject, the only two things important about the bullet are weight and material (lead or jacketed). It really makes no difference whether it's a Hornady 124 gr. HP or a Speer 124 gr. HP. Data is available by bullet weight and composition. While most manuals will list the bullet manufacturer, that isn't really needed information. You'll see as much or more change in velocities and pressures from a difference in who made the primer than in who makes the bullet.

    As I said originally, unless you have a huge supply of W-540, this is really a non-issue. I subscribe to LoadData.com (they currently have over 182,202 loads in their database) and a quick search of 9mm loads using W-540 produced a total of 6 loads using only two different bullets. A search on 9mm loads using HS-6 produces probably over a 100 loads with multiple bullets (more than I'm willing to spend the time to count). A search on 9mm at HandLoads.com produced zero results for W-540.

    Hoss
    I have a question about bullet materials.

    357 Magnum Load Data - Handloads.Com

    Why does Handloads show a bullet under .357 158 grain classified as JHP and the rest XTP? Are they not all JHP in the final analysis? Seems to me they would be the same. However everywhere I look I see XTP and some classified as Jacketed.... as if they are different. Maybe the hollow point is very deep on the XTP? Seems to me the fact the round is HP is not really of concern? Anybody?

    Thanks again.....
    Last edited by GiddyUpGo; February 27th, 2009 at 12:04 AM.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiddyUpGo View Post
    I have a question about bullet materials.

    357 Magnum Load Data - Handloads.Com

    Why does Handloads show a bullet under .357 158 grain classified as JHP and the rest XTP? Are they not all JHP in the final analysis? Seems to me they would be the same. However everywhere I look I see XTP and some classified as Jacketed.... as if they are different. Maybe the hollow point is very deep on the XTP? Seems to me the fact the round is HP is not really of concern? Anybody?

    Thanks again.....
    Handloads.com shows data from multiple sources so the load that shows a JHP bullet more than likely came from a different source than the other loads that show a XTP bullet. Also, take note that the powder listed for the JHP is H108 which is obviously old data. H108 isn't a current production powder and isn't even listed on Hodgdon's current burn rate chart.

    You're still trying to over-think this on the bullet. When looking up load data for a particular bullet, there are only two questions you need to ask:
    1. What is the bullet composition, lead or jacketed? (for plated bullets, default to the bullet manufacturer for which data to use)

    2. What is the bullet weight?
    Start at the bottom of the load listings and work your way up carefully.

    Hoss
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  14. #14
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    Handloads.com shows data from multiple sources so the load that shows a JHP bullet more than likely came from a different source than the other loads that show a XTP bullet. Also, take note that the powder listed for the JHP is H108 which is obviously old data. H108 isn't a current production powder and isn't even listed on Hodgdon's current burn rate chart.

    You're still trying to over-think this on the bullet. When looking up load data for a particular bullet, there are only two questions you need to ask:
    1. What is the bullet composition, lead or jacketed? (for plated bullets, default to the bullet manufacturer for which data to use)

    2. What is the bullet weight?
    Start at the bottom of the load listings and work your way up carefully.

    Hoss
    Ok, got it. Thanks again.
    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

  15. #15
    Member Array GiddyUpGo's Avatar
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    Got an email from Lee Precision ref the XTP classification.

    They advised that no matter what the weight or the type of bullet... if its an XTP it has its own classification and if you are using a different brand you can not use that load even if it is the same weight and type of bullet.

    XTP's are "special". Go figure. Sounds crazy to me.

    "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
    minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
    by the clean end"

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