I've had it with lead bullets! - Page 2

I've had it with lead bullets!

This is a discussion on I've had it with lead bullets! within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Originally Posted by Majorlk Leading is caused by two conditions: too soft bullets and too fast velocity - or a combination of the two. Hard ...

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Thread: I've had it with lead bullets!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Leading is caused by two conditions: too soft bullets and too fast velocity - or a combination of the two.

    Hard cast (and properly lubricated) bullets and moderate velocities (1,000 fps) reduce leading problems to not much more of a problem than removing the copper fouling from jacketed bullets.

    I've been shooting them for years and never spend more time cleaning the barrels than I did with jacketed rounds. Proper cleaning methods help, too.
    there you go.
    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

    Red State State of Mind

  2. #17
    Member Array Emrah's Avatar
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    I think it's been kind of touched on, but actual bullet diameter is a major factor. Most leading occurs when expanding gasses blast past the bullet and melt and smear the hot lead to the inside of the barrel. This occurs when the bullet is too small a diameter and cannot fully seal the hot gasses behind it.

    So, yes, too HARD a lead will not allow the bullet to fully obturate (expand at the back) and seal gasses. It will also not fully deform in the barrel to seal all the nooks and crannies (i.e. grooves) in the barrel. A softer lead will deform/conform easier.

    Hard cast bullets are great for higher velocities (like magnums for instance) where it needs to be hard enough to stand up to the higher pressures and speeds.

    I notice in my 1911's that if I use .452" diameter bullets, it's just dandy. Hardly no leading at all. .451's are ok. With .450's, leading and tumbling bullets within 2 magazines!

    Emrah

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    I average shooting about 500 rds of lead bullets a month out of a .45 ACP and a .40 S&W.

    I can't remember when I have any leading problems.

    My G35 with an after market Storm Lake barrel gets cleaned about every 3 months, not lazy, that how often it needs it, (1500 rds) and it never takes over a couple of minutes as 99.9% is powder residue. A couple of swipes with a bronze bore brush and the barrel is good to go.

    I am casting my own out of wheel weights and 2% tin- water cooled.

  4. #19
    Member Array mauser1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    I average shooting about 500 rds of lead bullets a month out of a .45 ACP and a .40 S&W.

    I can't remember when I have any leading problems.

    My G35 with an after market Storm Lake barrel gets cleaned about every 3 months, not lazy, that how often it needs it, (1500 rds) and it never takes over a couple of minutes as 99.9% is powder residue. A couple of swipes with a bronze bore brush and the barrel is good to go.

    I am casting my own out of wheel weights and 2% tin- water cooled.
    Where are you getting your tin at? Or are you using solder?

  5. #20
    Member Array Munch's Avatar
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    I shot nothing but hard cast round nose from Dillon in my S&W 5904. I'd always finish with 1 mag of copper jacket immediately after finishing up the lead rounds. Never had a hard time cleaning my barrel.
    “Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” Jeff Cooper

    http://carniakcustom.com/

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauser1959 View Post
    Where are you getting your tin at? Or are you using solder?


    I am buying solder off of Ebay, It is the cheapest I have found so far.

  7. #22
    New Member Array Zotter's Avatar
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    I'd always finish with 1 mag of copper jacket immediately after finishing up the lead rounds.
    Generally, Be cautions if you're going to emulate this. Special if your pistol has a polygonal barrel. There are those - some factory trained - that say shooting jacketed after lead in some polygonal barrels can be a problem. Enough to the point of causing damage and/or injury.
    StormRhydr and flintlock62 like this.
    "You see, wire telegraphy is a kind of a very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? Radio operates exactly the same way, except there is no cat."
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  8. #23
    Member Array Munch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zotter View Post
    Generally, Be cautions if you're going to emulate this. Special if your pistol has a polygonal barrel. There are those - some factory trained - that say shooting jacketed after lead in some polygonal barrels can be a problem. Enough to the point of causing damage and/or injury.

    I shoot these in 9mm roundnose.

    Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

    My 9mm is a S&W 5904 so I'm O.K.
    “Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” Jeff Cooper

    http://carniakcustom.com/

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    lead is gross. i always used Berry's plated bullets as well
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  10. #25
    New Member Array stickman's Avatar
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    Hi folks. I just found this site and must say there is some great information being passed around here. Glad I found it.

    In reading through this thread, I have found myself with mixed feelings about the sentiment portrayed by some concerning cast bullets. I have been shooting them for over 30 years and have had very good luck with them. Although I agree with most of what has been said about causes of leading, there are a couple other things that contribute to leading of barrels as much as, if not more so, than what has already been discussed.

    I have found that a properly fitting cast bullet can be pushed to magnum velocities with very soft lead. Bore diameters vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and from gun to gun. In .357 revolvers, I have found diameters ranging from .357 to over .3595. Although that doesn't sound like a lot of difference in size, shooting a bullet sized to .358 in a bore that measures .359 will cause great amounts of leading no matter how hard your alloy is or how fast you are shooting it. I have seen pure lead shot (without a gas check) to over 1100 fps with no leading. I have also seen linotype shot at 850 fps with severe leading. The best thing to do is to slug your barrel to find exact diameters. Then, size your cast bullets .001 to .0015 over that dimension.

    The other cause I have heard about (but not personally witnessed) is a rough barrel or a constricted barrel. A little lapping will usually correct this situation.

    I hope this information helps some of you to be able to pinpoint the exact cause of any leading you may be getting. It has virtually eliminated any leading I have ever experienced and has greatly increased my shooting enjoyment.

    Sorry for the long-winded post. Just trying to be helpful.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    I generally use a 1050 fps M/V copper bore brush at the end of the day to kepp the leading down. Save a mag of FMJ for the end of the day to reduce lead in the barrel.

  12. #27
    Member Array CarbonMatrix's Avatar
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    ..I have been casting my own bullets for 25 years now....it's kinda hard to pay for bullets when I know I can make them myself!!

    ..like others said....prep your barrel first....slow the loads down.....I use Wipe Out Bore Cleaner....

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    yep. barrys for me all the way!
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  14. #29
    New Member Array R7MagMan's Avatar
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    Shooting soft lead

    I have used soft lead bullets in revolvers with great results. The key is to keep the MV very low...there was a bullet maker named "Alberts" that made a very soft lead bullet for .38. It was flat nose bullet like a wadcutter but had a deep hollow point. It was fantastic at very low velocities. A great defensive round. If I remember correctly, I loaded .357 with about 4.5gr of Unique.... It produced not much more than a pop when fired but the bullets expanded to about the size of a quarter in soft media. My wife's .357 is loaded with these bullets in every other chamber ....there are some Bad Boys in between those little pops... That first shot is a confidence shot(gets you back to target) it will make a big hole. The next shot will drive through every bone it encounters...

    Don't discount the value of lead bullets. They will lead auto's because to make the gun function they must be driven relatively fast. Stay with jacketed bullets for auto pistols or you can shoot hard lead if you can keep MV low and still make the gun work.

    Lead bullets have there uses but don't expect them to perform where you should be using plated or jacketed bullets. I sure wish Alberts were still around ...I think it was the best lead .38/.357 bullet ever made.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Lewis lead removal tool. I shoot lots of lead and couple of passes with the tool all done

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