Fire Mission/poll --Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed

Fire Mission/poll --Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed

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Thread: Fire Mission/poll --Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Fire Mission/poll --Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed

    Should Gov. Bob McDonnell (Virginia's Governor) veto or approve a bill easing concealed weapons laws?

    Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed weapons laws? | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Please repost on other forums
    Last edited by DaveH; March 17th, 2010 at 03:38 PM.
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    Voted

    Should Gov. Bob McDonnell veto or approve a bill easing concealed weapons laws?
    Veto
    41% (328 votes)

    Approve
    56% (445 votes)

    The bill needs more modification
    3% (26 votes)

    Total votes: 799
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    41% veto
    56% Accept
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    It would be helpful to have some sort of review of what the bill as it is written today actually proposes to do.

    The fact that it "eases concealed carry" doesn't tell me how, or whether the means/method is one I would approve.

    The vote as designed does permit the option of "bill needs further modification", which could be just as viable and perhaps a more reasonable option than simply voting "yes".

    What does this bill say, anyway?
    People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    It would be helpful to have some sort of review of what the bill as it is written today actually proposes to do.

    The fact that it "eases concealed carry" doesn't tell me how, or whether the means/method is one I would approve.

    The vote as designed does permit the option of "bill needs further modification", which could be just as viable and perhaps a more reasonable option than simply voting "yes".

    What does this bill say, anyway?
    Knowing the Pilot they most likely mean any bill.

    However, it was attached to this story:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...e-va-tuck.html

    About this bill (HB505 as conformed to SB 334):

    LIS > Bill Tracking > HB505 > 2010 session

    also see:

    LIS > Bill Tracking > SB334 > 2010 session
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Veto 22%
    Approve 76%
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  7. #7
    Member Array merischino's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting those links. Now.... knowing that the bill as written is attempting to do 2 things, 1 permit ccers to enter restaurants with bars while carrying and 2 legislate behavior/intelligence while there, I guess I'd want to vote for option c "modify the bill" because I don't think it's the legislatures responsibility to legislate the drink or non drinking of alcohol by a law-abiding gun owner.

    If a law abiding gun owner conceal carries into a restaurant and has one beer at the end of a long day, does that make him crazy or likely to commit a felony? I don't think so. Would that one beer, under this law, make him guilty of a crime? Yes. Even one sip.

    That does not seem like clear thinking, to me.
    People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.
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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    ...If a law abiding gun owner conceal carries into a restaurant and has one beer at the end of a long day, does that make him crazy or likely to commit a felony? I don't think so. Would that one beer, under this law, make him guilty of a crime? Yes. Even one sip.

    That does not seem like clear thinking, to me.
    Only if he conceals his handgun. If he carries openly, he can drink to his heart's content. If I carry concealed into a restaurant, and then decide to have a drink, all I have to do is tuck my sportcoat behind my pistol, and suddenly, I'm no longer a threat.

    See, anyone who is allowed to own a firearm may carry openly and drink in a restaurant. Only those who have passed local, state and federal criminal background checks, received training, and committed no crimes pose a danger. And according to the Chiefs of Police and the Brady Center, it is only these people who have concealed handgun permits who are primed to get ripped and shoot the place up.
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    The approve column is now up to 85%...
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    Question So which man is the hack?

    From a VA-ALERT.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) and “PVC” reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    I was interviewed on March 17th by Christina Nuckols of the Virginian-
    Pilot. She called to verify some of my comments in a recent VA-ALERT
    about Virginia Beach Chief of Police, Jacocks.

    She asked clarifying questions, I gave clarifying answers. I'm not
    sure why she bothered to call since she wasn't interested in my
    answers - they didn't fit the story she wanted to write.

    But, having been down this road before, I have a recording of that
    interview and this will be a great chance for you to compare what I
    was asked, what I answered, and what appeared in her opinion piece.

    The key comes at about 5 minutes into the interview where she asks me,
    "Do you think that getting into this kind of a confrontation with the
    Police Chief is helpful for this bill?"

    That's what this is really about - the paper's wish to find some way,
    any way, to get the bill vetoed, even it if requires intentionally
    twisting my words to do so.

    In the article she writes, "The issue: He also insults Beach police
    officers over the guns-in-bars- bill." As you have read in the
    original alert a few days ago and will hear in the recording, that is
    a lie.

    Then she lets the cat out of the bag: "Where we stand: The bill is a
    bad idea, will endanger law enforcement and should be vetoed by the
    governor."

    While I doubt any of you will be truly shocked at the extent that the
    paper is willing to go to get their way, I suggest you listen to the
    recording and read the article.

    Recording of my interview by Christina Nuckols at 4:11 PM, March 17:

    http://www.vcdl.org/audio/DW_C0209.wav

    The opinion piece:

    Gun activist hacks at Chief Jacocks | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Gun activist hacks at Chief Jacocks
    Posted to: Editorials Opinion

    THE ISSUE He also insults Beach police officers over the guns-in-bars
    bill.

    WHERE WE STAND The bill is a bad idea, will endanger law enforcement
    and should be vetoed by the governor.

    The Virginian-Pilot
    March 19, 2010
    Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League,
    thinks he should be allowed to keep his gun concealed when he goes
    into a bar.

    Virginia Beach Police Chief Jake Jacocks thinks that would be
    dangerous because waiters won't know whether they're serving alcohol
    to an armed customer.

    Both men are entitled to their opinions. But Van Cleave is not
    entitled to turn this policy disagreement into a personal attack
    against Jacocks and the Beach's 800 police officers. [PVC: Notice
    that the Pilot is allowed to intentionally twist my words and then
    attack me for things that I didn't say and that kind of personal
    attack is OK.]

    In an e-mail Wednesday to members of his organization and media
    outlets, Van Cleave criticized Jacocks for asking Gov. Bob McDonnell
    to veto a bill that would permit concealed weapons in restaurants and
    bars that serve alcohol.

    "[I]t sounds like Chief Jacocks is afraid of his own officers carrying
    guns and being able to drink responsibly," Van Cleave wrote. "That's a
    sad commentary on his department and the other departments that are
    backing this position.... I've said it before and I'll say it again: a
    whole lot of chiefs of police are nothing more than political hacks
    that did not work their way up through the ranks..."

    Van Cleave, meet Chief Jacocks. He began his career with the Beach
    Police Department at age 19. He became a sworn officer in 1973 and
    worked in all four city precincts as well as special operations and
    the detective bureau. He celebrated his 10th year as chief on Monday.
    He and the men and women who work for him have made Virginia Beach one
    of the safest cities in the nation, according to the FBI. [PVC: I
    did not say that you had to be a political hack to work against the
    Constitutional rights of Virginians, but simply that many police
    chiefs unfortunately fall into that category.]

    Chief Jacocks, meet Phil Van Cleave. He writes computer software from
    his home office in Chesterfield County, but his claim to fame is his
    leadership post with a pro-gun group that claims 5,000 members. He
    says he's never shot a gun outside a shooting range but carries one
    with him at all times. He says he drew his gun "a few times" while
    volunteering as a reserve deputy sheriff when he was younger. [PVC:
    My lifestyle does miff Christina ;-) ]

    Each winter, Van Cleave patrols the halls of the state Capitol in his
    corduroy jacket and his gun, asking legislators to pass bills
    permitting weapons in parks, shopping malls, libraries, churches and
    bars. Meanwhile, Jacocks and his officers are patrolling the streets
    of Virginia Beach protecting city residents from murderers, robbers
    and rapists. [PVC: Christina simply can't fathom, or doesn't want to
    fathom, is that what VCDL does at the General Assembly makes the
    streets of Virginia Beach and everywhere else in Virginia safer, too.]

    So which man is the hack? [PVC: Actually - I think the hack in this
    opinion piece is a woman ;-) ]

    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL) [http://www.vcdl.org/]
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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