Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill? - Page 2

Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill?

This is a discussion on Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think the concern is that they would use certain medical records (say if you're seeing a psychiatrist) as an excuse to take away your ...

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Thread: Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill?

  1. #16
    Member Array nazshooter's Avatar
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    I think the concern is that they would use certain medical records (say if you're seeing a psychiatrist) as an excuse to take away your guns or at least deny you at NICS time.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Does anyone really know exactly what's in this HC bill? The only stuff I can find out on it as a whole is it's thicker than a NYC phone book and I know most of our representives havn't read it.

    I think the population is just being fed tid-bits here and there on this thing. Know if there's a 'loop-hole' the anti's can wiggle thier agenda into they've inserted there.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Does anyone really know exactly what's in this HC bill? The only stuff I can find out on it as a whole is it's thicker than a NYC phone book and I know most of our representives havn't read it.

    I think the population is just being fed tid-bits here and there on this thing. Know if there's a 'loop-hole' the anti's can wiggle thier agenda into they've inserted there.

    No one knows whats in the Health care bill, not even the numskulls that wrote it.

    The only thing I DO KNOW. Is the NObamaCare Health bill will be ENFORCED by the IRS. If you DON'T pay into the system, you will be fined by the IRS and if you don't pay the fine the United States Government will throw you IN JAIL.


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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I guess we will find out if there is gun restrictions in this bill... Wouldn't surprise me though. Probably something like if you have guns you get denied care... It makes me sick to even think if they can pass this piece of poo what else they can do with the other 2.75 years. Now that health care reform is done they probably will be starting the gun reform. Just whining about it won't help...We need to vote these jokers out of office.

    We are going to need a saint for president and a huge majority of good people in 2012 to fix all this mess
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I guess we will find out if there is gun restrictions in this bill... Wouldn't surprise me though. Probably something like if you have guns you get denied care... It makes me sick to even think if they can pass this piece of **** what else they can do with the other 2.75 years. Now that health care reform is done they probably will be starting the gun reform. Just whining about it won't help...We need to vote these jokers out of office.

    We are going to need a saint for president and a huge majority of good people in 2012 to fix all this mess

    actually it's not quite a done deal yet. I would guess by the end of the week there are going to be major law suites being filed.

    as far as any gun restrictions??? who knows? as Nancy (scary wench) Pelosi said "Lets get this bill passed, then we will find out whats in it"
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  6. #21
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Does anyone really know exactly what's in this HC bill? The only stuff I can find out on it as a whole is it's thicker than a NYC phone book and I know most of our representives havn't read it.

    I think the population is just being fed tid-bits here and there on this thing. Know if there's a 'loop-hole' the anti's can wiggle thier agenda into they've inserted there.
    LOL. Pelosi says"We have to pass it so we can see what's in it." What a joke.
    One more step and it's on!

  7. #22
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    Lawsuits which will go nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    actually it's not quite a done deal yet. I would guess by the end of the week there are going to be major law suites being filed.

    as far as any gun restrictions??? who knows? as Nancy (scary wench) Pelosi said "Lets get this bill passed, then we will find out whats in it"
    These lawsuits are for show. They will go nowhere. Most states already have laws mandating that you buy auto insurance; and you get fined if you drive without it. This new law isn't really different in principle.

    Mass. has for several years now had a law that everyone must buy health insurance or pay a penalty at tax time. The new law isn't really different in principle from the MA law.

    The present new law is exactly parallel to the one Romney endorsed when he was MA Governor. It is effectively the MA Health Insurance law.

    Also, since you admit that you don't know, " as far as any gun restrictions??? " why get upset? That is worrying about something which quite probably is a non-issue.

    It has already been pointed out that Uncle and your State already have had plenty of opportunity and more efficient means, for tracking gun ownership and identifying gun owners.

    You know, my doctor knows I have guns in the house. I was honest when she asked. No one from Uncle (Medicare) knows or cares about that fact. She doesn't either, and explained that the only reason she asked is to get an opportunity to remind people to keep them from children who might be in the house from time to time.

    Moreover, the new law expands PRIVATE insurance and does not create the devil of "a government run program" so many feared.

    Has anyone had a policy cancelled by a private insurer because they owned a gun?

    It might happen. It could happen. But deal with that when the situation arises instead of worrying about the "what might be" as none of us know the future. (Well, at my age I know my future, but that is a slightly different subject.)

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Moreover, the new law expands PRIVATE insurance and does not create the devil of "a government run program" so many feared.

    Has anyone had a policy cancelled by a private insurer because they owned a gun?

    It might happen. It could happen. But deal with that when the situation arises instead of worrying about the "what might be" as none of us know the future. (Well, at my age I know my future, but that is a slightly different subject.)
    Here is the issue. It's better to worry about gun restrictions NOW!!! before they become law, because once they become law, it's virtually impossible to remove them.

    The "other problem" with the Health care bill is COST:

    when was the last time you saw ANYTHING government run, that did not go up in cost exponentially,

    for example:
    Congressional forecasters in predicting costs. Start with Medicaid, the joint state-federal program for the poor. The House Ways and Means Committee estimated that its first-year costs would be $238 million. Instead it hit more than $1 billion, and costs have kept climbing.

    Thanks in part to expansions promoted by California's Henry Waxman, a principal author of the current House bill, Medicaid now costs 37 times more than it did when it was launched—after adjusting for inflation. Its current cost is $251 billion, up 24.7% or $50 billion in fiscal 2009 alone, and that's before the health-care bill covers millions of new beneficiaries.

    Medicare has a similar record. In 1965, Congressional budgeters said that it would cost $12 billion in 1990. Its actual cost that year was $90 billion. Whoops. The hospitalization program alone was supposed to cost $9 billion but wound up costing $67 billion. These aren't small forecasting errors.

    so if we go by the government own numbers, this program (again which no one has read) could not only include gun restrictions but it IS GOING TO COST the citizens of this country a BOAT LOAD of money in the long run.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    There are no gun restrictions in the health care reform bill (soon-to-be law), and yes, lots of people do in fact know what's in it. To claim otherwise is just another red herring scare tactic.
    Cheers,
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    They will start a war they CANT win! And my words are as solid as lead.
    thats great consedering how soft lead is.

    anywase being in the ball park of 3000 pages it is not suprising no one knows for shore what is going on. i belive that most of what we do not know are the little nuances that are almost inposible to understand whith out a lawyer present.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    The pertinent text

    The Senate health care bill is HR3590 (yes, the Senate bill is HR3590). The only language involving guns, handguns, firearms, weapons or the Second Amendment is found in Title X, Subtitle A, Section 10101, Subsection (e), beginning on page 2037.

    (e) Section 2717 of the Public Health Service Act, as added by section 1001(5) of this Act, is amended—
    (1) by redesignating subsections (c) and (d) as subsections (d) and (e), respectively; and
    (2) by inserting after subsection (b), the following:

    ‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—
    ‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.— A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—
    ‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.
    ‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—
    ‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
    ‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    ‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.

    ‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—
    ‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    ‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—
    ‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’’.
    A search for references to the BATF found nothing. Of course, this doesn't preclude the possibility to of future changes to the act, but that is always a possibility with any law. I still maintain that if any threat to our gun rights emerges through the health care reform, it will be in the form of a declaration that guns or handguns represent a public health issue, and that is an on-going, long-term effort.
    - Tom
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    If any person of any relation to anything (aside from active investigation of a crime) ever asks you any question what so ever about your individual right to keep or possess guns, there is no law current nor mandate in this health care bill pending requiring a person to;

    1) Answer at all;
    2) Answer with any degree of truthfulness
    3) Continue in the immediate doing business with said persons as related to any business what so ever.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    There are no gun restrictions in the health care reform bill (soon-to-be law), and yes, lots of people do in fact know what's in it. To claim otherwise is just another red herring scare tactic.
    Frankly, if the government ever did want to take guns away from people (yeah, good luck with THAT!) they could use the Patriot Act to try it rather than Health Care.

    Just more noise and disinformation.

  14. #29
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    The House version of the bill, (HR 3962), contains no mention that I could find of firearms or guns in its version. The Bill may be viewed here... all 1,900 pages!

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    The House version of the bill, (HR 3962), contains no mention that I could find of firearms or guns in its version. The Bill may be viewed here... all 1,900 pages!

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
    only because Albany hasn't got a hold of it.
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