Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill? - Page 8

Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill?

This is a discussion on Hidden Gun Restrictions in HC Bill? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by retsupt99 My doctor takes off 5 pounds from my scale weight because of my firearm and extra mag...she's a reasonable lady... You ...

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  1. #106
    Member Array crstrode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    My doctor takes off 5 pounds from my scale weight because of my firearm and extra mag...she's a reasonable lady...
    You don't need a CCW permit for that rifle.
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson


  2. #107
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZcarry View Post
    Firstly, the student loan amendment was not hidden. It was all over the news. We all knew about it if we were paying attention.

    Secondly, I don't think you understand how student loans work. The amendment affects the federal stafford loans that have always been available. They have simply taken the middle man out of them.

    Previously, the government sent the money to a bank of our choice who then administered the loan. They had no additional power over anything expect dispersing the funds. No matter what bank you chose your amount and terms would be the same because they were set by the government.

    The only difference is that the government removed the middleman. Now the money will be dispersed directly by the government without the banks who were just there as infrastructure anyway. It is a COST SAVINGS.

    Private student loans are still available for those who qualify. As has ALWAYS been the case folks are more than welcome to get private loans.
    Now you wont go to the bank, you will go to the government. Look at all the lost jobs that the loss of the middleman will loose in processing those loans. Look at the lost interest made by the banks and private lenders. Look at the loss of your choice on where to go get a student loan. Where will the money come from if private loans arent available? The government has no money. We all know how efficent the government is. Its too big. IT IS A COST SAVINGS? How do you figure as the loss of jobs by cutting the middle man will increase the unemployment burden on the states. Hidden or not, its a take over and destabalizing the nation.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  3. #108
    Member Array DZcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    Now you wont go to the bank, you will go to the government. Look at all the lost jobs that the loss of the middleman will loose in processing those loans. Look at the lost interest made by the banks and private lenders. Look at the loss of your choice on where to go get a student loan. Where will the money come from if private loans arent available?
    Yes, there will be job losses, but sometimes that is unavoidable. Reducing costs often results in some lost jobs. It is much more cost effective to cut out the middle man in federal student loans. Where does the money come from? It comes from the same place it has since the federal loan program took effect: the federal budget.

    As to the bolded section of your quote, private loans have not been outlawed. They will still exist exactly as they did before. This law only effects the federal stafford loan program NOT private loans.

    How could you possible consider this a "government take over"? The Federal Stafford loan program a already a government program!

  4. #109
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZcarry View Post
    How could you possible consider this a "government take over"? The Federal Stafford loan program a already a government program!
    How is it you do not?
    History of late suggest otherwise.
    We can disagree. I don't like big government. You haven't made your position clear but you suggest the governmental move that causes more unemployment is acceptable in a period of time when the nation is struggling. Doesn't make sense to make moves that continue to escalate the downward spiral. Big government is all about big government. It doesn't have to justify to the people if your running on a socialistic platform.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  5. #110
    Member Array DZcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    How is it you do not?
    History of late suggest otherwise.
    We can disagree. I don't like big government. You haven't made your position clear but you suggest the governmental move that causes more unemployment is acceptable in a period of time when the nation is struggling. Doesn't make sense to make moves that continue to escalate the downward spiral. Big government is all about big government. It doesn't have to justify to the people if your running on a socialistic platform.
    You are avoiding the question by directing it back to me. Until you can explain to me how the government "takes over" it's own program we really have nothing to discuss.

    Do you remember that story about the little boy who cried wolf? If you continue to cry wolf when it is not warranted no one will believe you when you have a justified complaint.

    I, like you, do not like big government. I do not believe that this amendment makes the government much bigger than it already is. Like I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) this was already a government program.

    I am a fiscal conservative. This provision saves us billions of dollars according to the CBO. In the short term it could result in 10,000+ jobs lost, however the cost to pay them unemployment is far less than the amount of money we save by cutting out the middle man. From a fiscally conservative point of view this was the correct action to take short of getting rid of the federal loan program altogether (something I would not support).

  6. #111
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZcarry View Post
    You are avoiding the question by directing it back to me. Until you can explain to me how the government "takes over" it's own program we really have nothing to discuss.

    Do you remember that story about the little boy who cried wolf? If you continue to cry wolf when it is not warranted no one will believe you when you have a justified complaint.

    I, like you, do not like big government. I do not believe that this amendment makes the government much bigger than it already is. Like I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) this was already a government program.

    I am a fiscal conservative. This provision saves us billions of dollars according to the CBO. In the short term it could result in 10,000+ jobs lost, however the cost to pay them unemployment is far less than the amount of money we save by cutting out the middle man. From a fiscally conservative point of view this was the correct action to take short of getting rid of the federal loan program altogether (something I would not support).
    I'm not avoiding anything DZ. I have my beliefs that I dont have to justify to anyone. How can you say I keep avoiding when you only asked me once. I'm not avoiding you, I'm exercising my free speech. This is the same CBO that reported all the saving to Obama after he polled them to get the correct answers that fit his puzzle. Yea, fair and responsible reporting by the CBO. I believe you will eventually see. If you don't thats OK as you are entitled to your own belief system as I am. Now there's talk about the spreading of the better, more qualified teachers into areas where the school systems are weak. Now the feds are going to tell teachers where they can and cannot work. How will this effect private schools? Nope, not a take over at all. We agree big government is not in our best interest. Thats good.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  7. #112
    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    I have some concerns. As it has already been stated, the President and his Administration seem to be hostile to the way of life that we presently enjoy by getting legislation passed that does nothing but turn us into a socialist nation.

    Actions speak louder than words here. I tend to ignore what politicians say, but rather look at what they do.

    What I see does not look good.

    I fear for the future of my grandchildren. Will they enjoy the freedoms that I grew up with or will they basically become wards of the state, having little choice in what they do?

    Congress just passed a bill that was over 2000 pages long, and yet by their admission, most of them have not read the bill.

    Every day that passes, we find new provisions like a 10% tax on tanning salons. I don't tan, but it's the principle of the thing. What else is taxed that we haven't figured out yet?

    One thing is for certain.

    I had more freedom before this bill passed than I do now.

    Call me simple, but that is how I look at things. Does it enhance freedom or does it take it away?

    If it takes it away, then why? Why does the government continue to reduce my freedom? If this is a systematic piece by piece destruction of life as we know it, then the gun control thing isn't a question of if, but a question of when.

    Will they pass it like they did the health care bill? With lies, deceit and trickery?
    Will they tell us that its for our own good, or the safety of our children?

    I have no faith in our Congress to do the right thing. I believe (wrongly I hope) that some sort of legislation that limits our ability to fight back with force if necessary, is impending.

  8. #113
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Here in Oklahoma keeping auto insurance prices down was a big part in passing mandatory seatbelt laws. It would be crazy to think that those with an agenda would not use health care as a way to pass laws they want.

    Michael

  9. #114
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    It frightens me more that it went back to the houses for some "tweaking and editing" after it was signed.

    One would think that doing such a thing would invalidate it.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #115
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    We have all these political criminals in DC crying: "I ain't had time to read the bill." This is a total cop out.

    Congress has a staff of 24,000 people at their beck and call. There are 45 staffers for every member of congress. The personal staff is 11,692: This comes to over 22 per congress animal. Each member of congress has a CofS who makes over $150,000 per year. Yep, the cost is 4.5 billion dollars per year. Then the scumbags complain about the size of government.

    If the congressional animal wants to know what is in a bill then all he/she has to do is to assign his overpaid and bloated 22 member staff to read sections of the darn thing and make reports.

    WikiAnswers - What is th...essional staff


    Quote:
    Well, to date, the size of congressional staff is approx. 24,000 Members in size.

    Personal Staff- who work for individual Members of Congress--11,692

    Committee Staff- who work for either the majority or minority on congressional committees--2,492

    Leadership Staff- who work for the Speaker, Majority Leader, Minority Leader, Majority Whip or Minority Whip--274

    Institutional Staff- majority or minority party floor staff, and non-partisan staff: police, legislative clerks, building, janitorial--5034

    Support Agency non-partisan Staff- Congressional Research Service [747]
    Congressional Budget Office [232]

    General Accounting Office [3,500].

  11. #116
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    We have all these political criminals in DC crying: "I ain't had time to read the bill." This is a total cop out.

    Congress has a staff of 24,000 people at their beck and call. There are 45 staffers for every member of congress. The personal staff is 11,692: This comes to over 22 per congress animal. Each member of congress has a CofS who makes over $150,000 per year. Yep, the cost is 4.5 billion dollars per year. Then the scumbags complain about the size of government.

    If the congressional animal wants to know what is in a bill then all he/she has to do is to assign his overpaid and bloated 22 member staff to read sections of the darn thing and make reports.

    WikiAnswers - What is th...essional staff


    Quote:
    Well, to date, the size of congressional staff is approx. 24,000 Members in size.

    Personal Staff- who work for individual Members of Congress--11,692

    Committee Staff- who work for either the majority or minority on congressional committees--2,492

    Leadership Staff- who work for the Speaker, Majority Leader, Minority Leader, Majority Whip or Minority Whip--274

    Institutional Staff- majority or minority party floor staff, and non-partisan staff: police, legislative clerks, building, janitorial--5034

    Support Agency non-partisan Staff- Congressional Research Service [747]
    Congressional Budget Office [232]

    General Accounting Office [3,500].
    I got ONE WIFE that does all that, runs my business AND cooks me dinner. this country is being run by idiots
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    INFIDELS

  12. #117
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    I got ONE WIFE that does all that, runs my business AND cooks me dinner. this country is being run by idiots

    Indeed it is run by idiots. Highly paid ones at that. Over 2,000 of those congressional staffers are paid over $100,000 per year of your hard earned tax dollars. This make me wanna puke:

    2,000 House staffers make six figures - Erika Lovley - POLITICO.com


    Nearly 2,000 House of Representatives staffers pulled down six-figure salaries in 2009, including 43 staffers who earned the maximum $172,500 or more than three times the median U.S. household income.

  13. #118
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    I got ONE WIFE that does all that, runs my business AND cooks me dinner. this country is being run by idiots
    Line 2 of my signature applies.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #119
    Member Array Doctor's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say hey and whats up. Topic near and dear to me. From a government that uses the Commerce Clause to dominate and regulate everything to do with economic interests, not a reach at all to see them abuse the healthcare bill to justify "regulation" of everything else.

    Remember tho what Ted said... "New Independence Day this November!!"

    DC rocks btw!
    Glock 36 with Lasermax / Glock 23 / Glock 21. Ruger SP101. Taurus 85.

    DZSG (Designated Zombie Survival Gun) = 870 Remington Tactical Shotgun

  15. #120
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    welcome to the forum Doc

    +1 on Nugent
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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