Second Amendment Open Carry = Continued (also for AZG23)

Second Amendment Open Carry = Continued (also for AZG23)

This is a discussion on Second Amendment Open Carry = Continued (also for AZG23) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; American Common Defence Review I am the Unrepresented Plaintiff in HAMRICK v. PRESIDENT BUSH, et al, U.S. District Court/DC, No. 03-2160, RICO Act case for ...

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Thread: Second Amendment Open Carry = Continued (also for AZG23)

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Second Amendment Case Ignored by NRA!!!

    American Common Defence Review



    I am the Unrepresented Plaintiff in HAMRICK v. PRESIDENT BUSH, et al, U.S. District Court/DC, No. 03-2160, RICO Act case for the Second Amendment. Dismissed with prejudice; Appealed, DC Circuit, No. 04-5316.

    ON MAY 18, 2006 MY MOTION FOR REHEARING & REHEARING EN BANC DISPUTING DISMISSAL OF RICO CLAIMS WAS DENIED. HOWEVER CASE IS REMANDED FOR FURTHER PROCEEDINGS ON SECOND AMENDMENT GROUNDS. Case is for National Open Carry Handgun. NRA refuses to help.

    My case needs your donations! Please visit my blog above and its archives to learn that my case is real and every bit the case the NRA dreamed for but now avoids because of its open carry trait conflicts with their concealed carry agenda.

    Signed: Don Hamrick


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I have seen this spam on multiple gun boards , IMHO if the NRA and other gun rights organizations ignore it its obviously a half baked loosing case. if i recall correctly it only pertains to merchant marine sailors , and has some real obscure presumptions . so in summation :

    Sorry Don Hamrick , while i wish you all the best your on your own as far as i am concerned .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    I have seen this spam on multiple gun boards , IMHO if the nra and other gun rights orginisations ignore it its obviously a half baked loosing case. if i recall correctly it only pertains to merchant marine sailers , and has some real obscure presumptions . so in summation :

    Sorry Don Hamrick , while i wish you all the best your on your own as far as i am concerned .
    I am posting notice on every gun related forum on the existence of my Second Amendment case in the federal courts of Washington, DC because the NRA nor any Second Amendment advocacy group will publicize news reports or commentary on my case. Calling it spam does not make it so. Not even in your wildest dreams.

    My case overlaps maritime law, federal laws, and state laws. It directly affects everyone's Second Amendment rights to open carry in interstate travel (crossing state lines while armed) and intrastate travel (city to city within a state) while armed.

    Obscure presumptions is exactly right. I am showing that present day social and legal norms have drifted away from constitutional norms. Constitutional norms would be obscue to you.

    And yes. I agree that I am on my own as I have litigated this case in the federal courts for the last 4 years on my own.

    I just thought maybe I could get a little help from "We, the People."

  4. #4
    Member Array NaturalSelection's Avatar
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    i can respect your conviction, but my cause is national cwp reciprocity. i feel that open carry is foolish as then only the bad guy has the element of surprise making you his first target.

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalSelection
    i can respect your conviction, but my cause is national cwp reciprocity. i feel that open carry is foolish as then only the bad guy has the element of surprise making you his first target.
    I'll toss this up to see if it flies.

    (1) Concealed carry is entrapment. It entices the bad guy to attack thereby giving you the appearance of a justifiable shooting, if it goes that far.

    (2) When open carry was the social and legal norm concealed carry was perceived to be an act of criminal intent. Thus we are now living in a flip-flop world that conradicts constitutional norms.

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    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    OK, I'll bite. . .

    #1, I'd have to say, "No." By today's standards, it would not be entrapment, as that would imply intent on the part of the person carrying concealed. And a reading of the many threads on this web site clearly demonstrates that this simply isn't "the norm."

    To follow that line of thinking would be to give weight to those arguments that place the blame for the crime on the victim, in this case, the person carrying concealed legally.

    #2, may hold some water. but it the fact that society's point of view has changed is not something aberrant. That is a normal function of evolution of man.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    OK, I'll bite. . .

    #1, I'd have to say, "No." By today's standards, it would not be entrapment, as that would imply intent on the part of the person carrying concealed. And a reading of the many threads on this web site clearly demonstrates that this simply isn't "the norm."

    To follow that line of thinking would be to give weight to those arguments that place the blame for the crime on the victim, in this case, the person carrying concealed legally.

    #2, may hold some water. but it the fact that society's point of view has changed is not something aberrant. That is a normal function of evolution of man.

    mm
    Agree on (1).

    Disagree on (2). The "standard of living" for mankind may have improved over the centuries at different rates around the world but how people treat others has not evolved or improved in the slightest. The Constitution is a static document in this regard because human behavior never changes, no matter how technologically advance a country is.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    donhamrick I would really be interested to see how you can define the constitution as " static " since obviously it is not nor has it ever been.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    donhamrick I would really be interested to see how you can define the constitution as " static " since obviously it is not nor has it ever been.
    The Constitution remains static subject to the amendment process. Until it is ammended and ratified the words and their meaning remain the same. It is the error of the courts twisting the meaning of the Constitution to say what it does not mean.

    As an example (that I need to do more research on) is the spelling of common defence in the Preamble to the Constitution means the People were intended to participate in the "common defence" via posse comitatus, militia, and through federal laws, the state defense force, and the right of citizens' arrest and for the maritime industry, the Letters of Marque and Reprisal (it is in the Constitution). All these imply the right of open carry to effectively practice and execute these rights and duties.

    I'm suggesting that we can have both a "Common Defence" (We, the People) and a "National Defense" (the military defense industry)

    Remember, with rights come duties.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    subject to the amendment process imho makes it a dynamic document , and for the record i too disagree with " legislation from the bench " on constitutional issues.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    subject to the amendment process imho makes it a dynamic document , and for the record i too disagree with " legeslation from the bench " on constutitional issues.
    We are talking semantics here.

    My interpretation of "dynamic document" is construed to mean changing the meaning of the Constitution by U.S. Supreme Court case law as is being done by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the other liberal Justices by applying foreign case law to American cases on a more frequent basis and other examples that do not employ the constitutional amendment process.

    Prohibition of alcohol is an example of society attempting to dynamically alter the Constitution through the amendment process by bending the constitution to moral values. This didn't work. The amendment process cannot be used to alter the Constitution based on moral values but should only be used to correct some defect in the Constitution itself in order to achieve the ideals of actual freedom.

  12. #12
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    We will never see Interstate Open Carry in the United States...Unless there is some sort of future catastrophic, &/or probably a years long protracted national emergency.

    Maybe something horrific such as nationwide roving bands of infiltrated sniper type homicide bombers and terrorists.

    Anything short of that & I think you would be trying to capture moonbeams in a jar. It is just not going to happen.

    Just my personal opinion on that.

    Good Luck To You Though.

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array donhamrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    We will never see Interstate Open Carry in the United States...Unless there is some sort of future catastrophic, &/or probably a years long protracted national emergency.

    Maybe something horrific such as nationwide roving bands of infiltrated sniper type homicide bombers and terrorists.

    Anything short of that & I think you would be trying to capture moonbeams in a jar. It is just not going to happen.

    Just my personal opinion on that.

    Good Luck To You Though.
    Now that is a very honest and respectful opinion. Thank you.

    Nevertheless, it is an originally protected and guaranteed right and duty under the Constitution. This fact cannot be ignored although the U.S. Government ignores it anyway. However, they exacerbate the circumstances that may cause the very scenario you describe by taking so long to shore up the Mexican border.

  14. #14
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    I respect anybody that gets "out there" & fights any good fight.

    These days so many people are so apathetic that they have no convictions & stand for absolutely nothing.

    I'm afraid that same general apathy will be the downfall of your cause.

    Remember that even though there are seemingly MANY gun owners in America...however, compared to the total population ~ we are still a sad minority.
    Of the total population of gun owners...I'm guessing that about 35% of them only own a firearm just to have one stuffed in under the underwear in the top dresser drawer "just in case"...but, are still not actively Pro Gun.
    Then you have the occasional hunters that own a long gun or two but, have no interest at all in handguns....and so on down the line - until you finally get to an extremely low # of folks that would even possibly rally around the cause of Interstate Open Carry.

    Then of course...of the defensive shooters that do wish to carry...most prefer to carry concealed and would not "open carry" even if they could. They believe that Open Carry gives away some tactical advantages & so while generally in favor of anything Pro Gun are not going to be highly motivated to jump in the fight.

    Pitting all that against the Highly Vocal Liberal Left & the Left Leaning Media & all the ensuing talk about Returning To The Gunfighter Days Of The Wild West & Shoot~Outs...Blood Running Like Rivers In The Street & The Return To The OK Corral type B.S. & you sure do have an uphill climb on your hands.

    And then (Of Course) We MUST NOT FORGET the 40% of Americans that...Cripes!...cannot even find Iraq YET on a world map & do not know the name of our Vice Prez...even though most DO know that "Bush" is the President.

    I just best guessing that you'll not have many members on your team.
    The stark reality of it is highly discouraging.

    So...I am not trying to discourage you but, even if you have a valid constitutional argument...I don't know how you would ever force the high court to rule on it....without a national outcry/uproar. I just don't see how they would want to touch it.

    BTW: That is why I thought it would be great for LEOs & Retired LEOs to get to carry Interstate Concealed.

    I thought that LEOs doing that might set up some sort of Legal Precedent such as "Everybody Equal Under The Law" & might help swing open the door for Interstate Licensed Concealed Carry but, it does not even look like that is going to happen any time soon. There still might be some hope for that though.

    If Interstate Concealed Carry gets OKed then I think you might have a shot.

  15. #15
    Senior Moderator
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    I respect anybody that gets "out there" & fights any good fight.
    Amen to that...


    These days so many people are so apathetic that they have no convictions & stand for absolutely nothing.
    You hit that one right on the money. An unfortunate circumstance...and a pitiful state of mind to be in...


    I'm afraid that same general apathy will be the downfall of your cause.
    The same apathy that will be the cause of the downfall of this nation.

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