Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries

Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries

This is a discussion on Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Good Commentary! Concealed Handguns Won&#39t Make Bars Shooting Galleries | Richmond Times-Dispatch Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries DAVID RITTGERS TIMES-DISPATCH GUEST COLUMNIST Published: ...

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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries

    Good Commentary!

    Concealed Handguns Won&#39t Make Bars Shooting Galleries | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries

    DAVID RITTGERS TIMES-DISPATCH GUEST COLUMNIST
    Published: March 28, 2010

    Virginia Beach Police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. recently asked Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto the "concealed handguns in bars" bills that have passed both houses of the General Assembly.

    Chief Jacocks says that the carrying of handguns will endanger thepublic, that guns and alcohol don't mix, and that only law enforcement officers can handle that awesome responsibility of carrying a concealed handgun in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

    Unfortunately, Jacocks seems unaware that handguns are already allowed in alcohol-serving establishments.

    As Chief Jacocks puts it, "The potential for display and/or discharge of the firearm is unquestionably high."

    Actually, the potential for display of a firearm in a restaurant that serves alcohol is a certainty under current law.

    Concealed handgun permit holders in Virginia are required to transition to "open carry" when they enter establishments that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. They must remove their jacket or other cover garment concealing their firearm and carry it openly.

    When current law mandates the result that Jacocks fears, he should rethink his position. When the bill becomes law, Virginia will not suddenly become a more dangerous place to live and work.

    In fact, the commonwealth's laws will reflect those of the rest of the United States. Of 48 states with concealed handgun permit regimes, only nine put restrictions on carrying in establishments that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. Only Virginia and Montana require open carry, and Arizona requires concealed carry.

    Chief Jacocks' argument would be better served if he proposed moving to the Arizona model to mandate concealment.

    Nationwide, the states have decided that there is a class of citizens who can be trusted with carrying a concealed handgun -- specifically, those people who can pass a background check and whatever training requirement the state mandates. We call those people "permit holders."

    As the concealed handgun laws across the nation were relaxed in the past 20 years, we have heard desperate warnings that blood would run in the streets when permits were issued. None of these predictions came true, and concealed handgun permit holders are a more law-abiding bunch than the populace as a whole.

    In a recent open letter to Gov. McDonnell, Chief Jacocks attempted to draw a parallel between drinking and carrying a gun, and drinking and driving an automobile. The General Assembly has already addressed this concern, by making it illegal under the proposed law to consume alcohol while carrying a concealed handgun. If past rates of criminal activity by permit holders are any guide, they will follow this law far better than the rest of society.

    The same cannot necessarily be said of the police in whom Chief Jacocks places so much of his faith. Last June, Officer Bryan Womble of the Virginia Beach Police Department's Selective Enforcement Unit -- the group of officers tasked with keeping drunk drivers off the road -- was arrested for driving with a blood alcohol concentration of 0.15 after a car crash. (Womble is no longer employed by the Virginia Beach police.) Another of Jacocks' officers was charged in December after striking a neighbor's mailbox while driving under the influence.

    Yet Chief Jacocks tells us that "[it] is irresponsible for anyone other than a law enforcement officer to carry a firearm into a bar."

    If Chief Jacocks is so concerned about the prospect of intoxicated arguments turning into gunfights, he should have submitted language to the legislature that applies a "no drinking" rule to law enforcement officers and commonwealth's attorneys. They are currently allowed to carry a concealed handgun in a bar and to consume alcohol while doing it. The proposed legislation would not change this fact.

    The majority of the states allow concealed handguns in establishments that serve alcohol. The Commonwealth of Virginia can treat its citizens like adults and do the same.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    David Rittgers is an attorney and decorated former Army special forces officer who served three tours in Afghanistan and is now a legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute. Contact him at drittgers@cato.org.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    Word.

    Minnesota doesn't ban carrying in bars/restaurants but does make it a crime to carry with a 0.04% BAC or above. This allows you to enter and not drink, or maybe have one beer with dinner. Despite the liberal mantra of "blood in the streets" and "shootouts in the bars", there haven't been any issues with it since passage six years ago.

    The "Virginia Tuck" is silly, get with the rest of the country.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    That's.....refreshing. Thanks.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    For me, though, I don't drink and carry. Even if you end up OK from a protection standpoint, I wouldn't want to have alcohol on my breath after a shooting. Bad start to a criminal and civil phase.

    (But, the wife can carry so one of us will still be armed.)
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    We can carry here in any bar, restaurant, etc. that is not posted.... and few are. There have been no incidents involving anyone legally carrying a gun.

    Now, I can point out some bars you can go to where there will definitely be some people who are Illegally carrying, involved in gangs, and where there has beeen some shootings.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    We have been allowed to carry into bars and restaurants for hmmm about 80yrs and it isn't a problem here either!!!
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    Before the Chief get's shorts in a wad he should make sure none of his officers go drinking while armed. Alcohol and gunpowder to mix any better cause you have a badge.

    As an ex-cop, I know that many officers do not leave the weapons at home when they hit the bars.

    If you are going to drink, don't drive or carry. Period.
    NRA Life Member

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    All it takes is one incident for the left to freak out and the MSM jump all over it with the "I-told-you-so-stories": It will happen at some point because there are bad guys out there that like holding up bars! Only the game has changed a bit with the roughly 3,000,000 concealed carry permits having been issued.

    When it does happen, we just have to use calm, calculated logic and the rule of law to counter the inevitable noise the left will certainly make.....
    EDC - S&W M&P .45

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    Wow. Truth from the RTD. Whoodathunkit?
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Wow. Truth from the RTD. Whoodathunkit?
    Editor in Chief must have been out sick
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Wow. An insightful, intelligent, reasonable, logical column about firearms...in a newspaper?!? The journalistic world must be throwing fits. They will probably revoke this writer's membership and Quill & Scroll!
    Gonzo
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  12. #12
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    Something like 38 states already have CCW allowed in establishments that serve alcohol, and no blood is flowing in the streets. Whenever a new state has the debate (TN last year and VA this year) nobody seems to remember this.
    pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cz2075bd View Post
    Something like 38 states already have CCW allowed in establishments that serve alcohol, and no blood is flowing in the streets. Whenever a new state has the debate (TN last year and VA this year) nobody seems to remember this.
    They remember.
    They just ignore.
    That is always what happens when the facts don't fit their agenda.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterOfMass View Post
    When it does happen, we just have to use calm, calculated logic...
    Since when has logic meant anything, either to the anti-gunners or to the masses?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Concealed Handguns Won’t Make Bars Shooting Galleries
    Colorado realizes this. 0.08% is the limit for driving and carrying. Otherwise you're good to go!

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