Felons and Guns

[Bumper]

For all the reasons already stated above, I would say absolutely not. They have a past history of not following the law and they knowingly forfeited that right....

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Rugerman]

I say NO if you were CONVICTED of a felony then so sorry you lose.

[PgSqlQuery]

Nope. If you violate someones rights by committing a crime against them and that crime is considered bad enough by society to have the offender's freedoms taken away for at least a year, then you should have your rights taken away also. For life. No voting, no guns. You are a criminal and should be treated as such. I am sick and tired of criminals being coddled by liberals.

Now wait a second here.

Let me pose this to you. Here, in Ohio, say I'm driving around, with my CHL, and carrying, and I get pulled over. Then, say, my shirt shifts in such a way that it covers my gun, I'm instantly a felon, if the cop finds out. OR, say I brush the firearm with my arm, accidentally, while getting my DL out, I'm an instant felon.

You're saying, for stupid things like that (and I could cite more, that don't involve my CHL) I should lose all those freedoms / rights?

I still think, if the ex-felon is able to obtain an expongement, then all should be well...

[Texas_XD]

For all the reasons already stated above, I would say absolutely not. They have a past history of not following the law and they knowingly forfeited that right....

Speaking of past history, what if the person committed a 3rd degree felony, just inside that realm of classification over 18 yrs ago and hasn't even recieved a parking ticket since? No violence, he signed a traveler's check in his ex-girlfriend's name but DIDN'T try to pass it. Should he continue to be punished by having his rights revoked? I think not, that is a LONG period of time proving he can and would be responsible enough. I speak of this from personal experience growing up. My best friend since 4th grade did something stupid while 18 and has suffered ever since. This suffering includes the armed robbery of his home while he and his family were present. Yes, he could have went the way of the straw purchase long ago using his wife, but didn't and hasn't. Certain cases should be reviewed for expongement using a system that allows for an easier usage by the person concerned. The current system makes it all but impossible for the average working man/woman to fiancially access. It comes down to feeding/housing your children or having rights. Not to mention that you end up restricted from most higher paying employment. There are holes in our legal system, some of them quite large. And I am in no real way a Liberal, I firmly believe that after 3 appeals on a death sentence, game over. Soon as that 3rd one is denied you get walked right to the excutioner. And that these appeals must happen within a 3 yr period, why feed/house/clothe the multiple murderer for 20 yrs? BUT I am not so narrow minded that I would lump all crimes into a "punish them till they die" idealology. There has to be a certain point that forgiveness is EARNED on some of the lesser felonies.
And on a side note, Child Molestation SHOULD be considered an act of violence. A person is causing physical and mental harm to the child which can, and most likely will, haunt them till they die.

[ibex]

Yeah, what Fargo said.

But we have to apply the law as it is written.
Not what it should be.

Shouldn't a democracy make the laws into what they should be instead of shrugging and saying "coulda, woulda, shoulda"?

The guy is still a POS and should suffer lifelong consequences. Too bad, so sad

Let me get that straight... you'd pass out a LIFE sentence for forging a $500 check or smoking a joint? No voting rights, no right to effective self-defense for LIFE?

There is a certain proverb that I dare not quote here... let's just say that zero-tolerance policies are always a very bad sign.

Chris' (P95Carry) approach seems far more sensible to me, I could compromise on that.

[Wayne]

Gun people are funny. They say that certain laws are NULL and Void because they are unconstitutional. Then they say to obey the law, but when polls are conducted, about 2/3's will answer "from my cold dead hands" if they ever ban guns and make owning one a FELONY or illegal.

2/3's may just be all the keyboard kommando's that seem to run rampant over the interent but there seems to be quite a few members of good standing saying the same thing.

Then there is the generalization that all felons are either violent or "if they were that stupid in order to do something the government thinks is a felony then they deserve to lose their rights". I hate to mention this but the definition of Felony differs in each state and locality. What may be a felony in one state is not in another.

Take this as an example: I live in Oregon. My state is inbetween California and Washington. In Oregon I may own an AR-15 (or any other EBR) but if I cross the state line then I am then an instant felon.

Then we have Washington. In Oregon I can own a fully automatic rifle and/or pistol (under current federal laws). Yet if I step into Washington, I am now an instant felon.

And, quite honestly, the only reason that felon meets the federal guidelines is that most felonies have penalties of being put into prison for a period of 1 year or more. I hate to tell you that some misdeamors may also carry the penality of imprisonment of over one year. By federal law, you are barred from legally owning firearms (but can still vote, have all your other rights).

So, by law if you get picked up for something minor that is deemed a misdeamor and the penality on the books is 13 months in prison (up to 13 months in prison being one of the options) but you only get probation, you are still barred from owning firearms for life.

Read the federal law again.

Then you have the problem of law makers, both state and federal, who are making more and more "felonies" of things that used to be misdeamors.

The biggest problem though is the fact that all of us break the law multiple times during the day (and sometimes night, depending on your state). Even if you go about trying to obey the law you will break one. With all the laws on the books, states and federal, not one of us here can honestly say that we are truly "law abiding". If you say that you are (and then I'm assuming that you know by heart every law in the United States including every State and Federal) then I will have to disagree with you and tell you so.

So, my thought is that maybe we should rethink our attitudes on the subject, taking in everying in account and not just spout off with pure emotion.

Those that do go by emotion moreso then logic/research tends to make me think that maybe we are not so different from those that we fight against who are trying to take away our Rights because of emotion and not logic.

Wayne

[Mak9x18]

IIRC a story in the Southern Illinoisan out of Carbondale, Illinois, spoke about the difficulty the state was having in renewing expired Firearms Owner Identification (FOID) cards. Anyone in Illinois in possession of a firearm without a valid FOID card commits a felony. So, if your FOID expired and the state couldn’t get it renewed on time you were committing a felony by having a loaded firearm in your possession. Any convicted felon in Illinois is ineligible for an FOID.

I’m glad I no longer live there. I don’t even like to travel back to visit my brother.

[Fragman]

Well, with all these reponses, it is going to be easy for all the gun grabbers isn't it? Just make more things felonies (wait, aren't they already doing that?)

Speeding, paying taxes late, farting in an elevator. All disrepectful to society. TAKE THEIR GUNS!!!

Now, we're not saying that you should give violent offenders, or even cases of serious dishonesty access to firearms. But, come on, some things do not make a person unfit to carry a weapon.

How about a cop saying you attempted to flee? You didn't see him in your rearview right away, and stopped as soon as you did. It was dark and he didn't use his lights. (He said he did, but its your word against his). Or maybe you didn't stop fast enough or didn't think he was after you? You are a Felon.

Or, how about this? You using your wireless internet connection. Your neighbor also has wireless (and it isn't secured). Your wireless router is unplugged for some reason. Your machine automatically access his network. You have now illegally accessed a network (the fact that it is unsecured doesn't matter) . Felony.

Never forget some overzealous DA can make many of us a felon. And we don't all have big budget lawyers to get it thrown out.

[mzmtg]

How can we decide that these convicted felons (whatever the offense may have been) are fit to walk among us as members of society while at the same time denying them the most basic right of self defense?

If they are fit to be out of prison, they should be fit to exercise ALL the rights of a citizen.

Effective self defense is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.

That's my POV.

[Tubby45]

If they are fit to be out of prison, they should be fit to exercise ALL the rights of a citizen.

So then the cop killers who serve 15 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

So the serial child rapist that serves 25 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

[P95Carry]

Let me butt in briefly.

It is apparent that this subject has and always will have two camps - it is an old cherry and is therefore contentious - also highly emotive for some.

No problem hearing both sides of the coin but I know from experience things can heat up easily - because we feel so strongly one way or another. So - just a request to keep the discussion cool, lest anyone is tempted to inject a temperature rise

Most has been covered in fact but we'll keep it open for now.

[Fragman]

So then the cop killers who serve 15 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

So the serial child rapist that serves 25 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

I think the issue there is that why is a cop killer or a child rapist getting out ever?

In my opinion, (which is worth more to me than it is to you I'm sure!), most people would agree that that sort of person may be better off not having a gun. I agree

But here's the sticky point. When you start denying certain people from having guns, you have created a thin end of the wedge. Who is next? Only people who pay taxes on time? Only people who go to Church? Only white males? Only ex-military? Only LEO? Sounds like the UK to me. Now, common sense dictates not giving guns to the violent, but still....

Really, the issue for me is that if the person still represents a danger, they shouldn't be out of jail anyway.

[mzmtg]

Really, the issue for me is that if the person still represents a danger, they shouldn't be out of jail anyway.

Exactly!

[mzmtg]

So then the cop killers who serve 15 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

So the serial child rapist that serves 25 years can walk out of prison and legally carry a gun?

http://publicola.mu.nu/archives/2006...01_felons.html

Laws prohibiting persons from possessing weapons do not prevent crimes; they encourage them. How? By creating a defenseless caste of people. The axe murderer wouldn't have any qualms about stealing a pistol or buying one from the black market if he intended to modernize his particular crime fetish. But the 65 year old man who got off with 3 years probation instead of the 5 years federal time for importing a verboten flower? Odds are he'd not think about obtaining a firearm. If anyone knew this & had criminal intent then our 65 year old flower fiend would be ripe pickins for a robber.

[Tubby45]

Yes I realize the criminal element will get a gun if they want to. To think otherwise is foolish.

I just like to steer them away from gun dealers and hopefully they will try to steal one from a law abiding citizen who shoots and kills them as they break into their house at the crack of dawn or gets ripped off in a black market deal and gets smoked in the process.

The problem,in part, is the spineless prosecuters that drop charges left and right instead of stacking the deck against them. That and the parole system as a whole needs to be eliminated.

No more limited or reduced sentences for crimes. Do a crime, you get a certain amount of time and the judge can't reduce it, ie no probation instead of jail time; no "up to 15 years". You get 15 years for a 15-year felony not a second sooner. Robbery=X years, Car theft=Y years, etc. We need to stop coddling criminals and start treating them like criminals. The ever increasing wussification of America. Sickening.