Felons and Guns

This is a discussion on Felons and Guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by freakshow10mm Yes I realize the criminal element will get a gun if they want to. To think otherwise is foolish. I just ...

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Thread: Felons and Guns

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Yes I realize the criminal element will get a gun if they want to. To think otherwise is foolish.

    I just like to steer them away from gun dealers and hopefully they will try to steal one from a law abiding citizen who shoots and kills them as they break into their house at the crack of dawn or gets ripped off in a black market deal and gets smoked in the process.

    The problem,in part, is the spineless prosecuters that drop charges left and right instead of stacking the deck against them. That and the parole system as a whole needs to be eliminated.

    No more limited or reduced sentences for crimes. Do a crime, you get a certain amount of time and the judge can't reduce it, ie no probation instead of jail time; no "up to 15 years". You get 15 years for a 15-year felony not a second sooner. Robbery=X years, Car theft=Y years, etc. We need to stop coddling criminals and start treating them like criminals. The ever increasing wussification of America. Sickening.
    Mandatory minimum sentences are not the answer either. They eliminate any discretion based on the nature of the crime. Not all gun crimes are the same, not all drug crimes are the same. The defendants need to be judged on the merits of their particular cases.

    One could also say that mandatory minimums are a safety risk for the rest of us. If someone knows they are facing a minimum of 25 years for the amount of weed in their car, they could be more likely to decide it's "worth it" to flee or shoot it out with arresting officers. Possibly they would be less inclined to violence if they knew they could actually "throw themselves at the mercy of the court."

    All that being said, I am all for tougher sentences that will actually be carried out against violent offenders. But, mandatory minimums and a lifetime of restricted freedom after serving time is NOT the answer.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Drug prohibition aside I think that no, felons should not be allowed to have guns. It really is a difficult subject. I do agree with the law guy, that we should reword felony to mean people that truly shouldn't have guns.

    I think that taking someones rights away over a couple joints or something is stupid though. It's no different in my book than a couple beers (I don't drink or do drugs, I'm just pro personal freedom).

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday
    Drug prohibition aside I think that no, felons should not be allowed to have guns. It really is a difficult subject. I do agree with the law guy, that we should reword felony to mean people that truly shouldn't have guns.
    Can you articulate your reasoning behind denying one's right to effective self defense after they have served their time?

  5. #34
    New Member Array Broshear's Avatar
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    Can't there be any hope of redemption? I know someone who stole a car at 18, joined the Army at a judge's suggestion, served the full 20 honorably, and has now been an honest citizen for over 40 years. Should this person's gun rights be restricted forever?

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg
    Mandatory minimum sentences are not the answer either. They eliminate any discretion based on the nature of the crime. Not all gun crimes are the same, not all drug crimes are the same. The defendants need to be judged on the merits of their particular cases.

    One could also say that mandatory minimums are a safety risk for the rest of us. If someone knows they are facing a minimum of 25 years for the amount of weed in their car, they could be more likely to decide it's "worth it" to flee or shoot it out with arresting officers. Possibly they would be less inclined to violence if they knew they could actually "throw themselves at the mercy of the court."

    All that being said, I am all for tougher sentences that will actually be carried out against violent offenders. But, mandatory minimums and a lifetime of restricted freedom after serving time is NOT the answer.
    The fundamental principle of American law as it as written is that a certain crime = a certain penalty. To undercut the law and slap a murderer on the wrist by giving them 5 years instead of life or DP is BS and the judges that do so should be removed from the bench.

    Now you see "not more than" or "up to" in sentencing. More BS.

    There shouldn't be any 'minimums'. There should only be one sentence for a crime. Guilty equals this sentance, no questions asked.

    I do recall the KC, MO experiment in the 90's where all the state's gun laws were upheld and sentences were given at the maximum. Crimes with guns fell dramatically. There is one example of max sentences working to reduce crime.

    Hopefully criminals try and fight it out with police and hopefully the police shoot and kill all of them. No overcrowding in prisons, tax payers save money on court costs, no repeat offenders. There are a lot of people out there who were injured or killed by criminals who threw themselves at the mercy of the court, played the system, got out and killed again. That shouldn't be.

    Yoda, yes IMO he shouldn't have been allowed to join the military or own a firearm. I don't care how remorseful you are, you commit a felony your life should be ruined. Not ride out the storm and we will forget all this.

    A criminal is a criminal and will always be a criminal and should always be treated like a criminal. That is the life they chose, let them live that live. You make your bed, lay in it.
    Last edited by Team American; June 25th, 2006 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Language
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  7. #36
    Member Array ibex's Avatar
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    freakshow10mm, I respect your opinion and politely disagree with almost everything in post #35, but I find this especially objectionable:

    There should only be one sentence for a crime. Guilty equals this sentance, no questions asked.
    You do not even believe in mitigating circumstances?
    "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause."
    - Senator Padmé Amidala, "Revenge of the Sith"

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Ok Time To Tone it Down And Watch your Language Everyone

  9. #38
    Ex Member Array one eyed fatman's Avatar
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    This one is getting good. Anybody want some popcorn?

  10. #39
    Ex Member Array one eyed fatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio333
    I beleive that non-violent felons should be allowed to own/use firearms after they finish their sentence/probation. Do you?
    It will never work, it will never happen, I hope. Why? Because the first thing law makers do when making a law is stick their heads up their butts. The second thing they do is stick in some pork. And the third thing they do is install some loopholes. So if they did change the law for non-violent felons sure as heck lawyers would find those loopholes and the next thing you know all felons, terrorist and other rif raff would able to own and carry guns too. Best to leave it as is.

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    The fundamental principle of American law as it as written is that a certain crime = a certain penalty.
    Where is this written?


    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    A criminal is a criminal and will always be a criminal and should always be treated like a criminal. That is the life they chose, let them live that live. You make your bed, lay in it.
    Then why even have prisons?

    Why not just execute all criminals?

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibex
    You do not even believe in mitigating circumstances?
    Nope, don't buy it.


    Mzmtg, I missed the "w" in there. Should have been as it "WAS" written. Laws in the early days of American history had one penalty for a crime and that penalty was non-negotioable. There were no "not more than 5 years" or "up to 25 years" sentencing. It was this and only this. IIRC from class, it was after 1900 that criminal laws were altered to give sentencing discretion.

    Violent offenders should be executed. As well as sex offenders, rapists, child molesters, elderly abusers. If you use a weapon during the commission of your crime, you should definately be executed. Armed robbery? Carjacking with a machete? Firing squad.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Violent offenders should be executed. As well as sex offenders, rapists, child molesters, elderly abusers. If you use a weapon during the commission of your crime, you should definately be executed. Armed robbery? Carjacking with a machete? Firing squad.
    Sounds like you'd be much happier and "safer" in North Korea than the good ole USA...

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Ok Folks i think this one has run its course

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