No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back? - Page 5

No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back?

This is a discussion on No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by HotGuns Another reason that we probably wont ever see unrestricted ownership of FA or SBS's or SBR's is because it is a ...

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  1. #61
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    Well HG, maybe you are right on motive here

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Another reason that we probably wont ever see unrestricted ownership of FA or SBS's or SBR's is because it is a cash cow for the government.

    There are lots of suppressors out there, lots of short barreled shotguns, lots of short barreled rifles. At 200 bucks a pop, I doubt that the Feds would want to lose yet another source of revenue.



    I wear seat belts and have ever since I attended some rather nasty wrecks as a Fireman many moons ago. I trained my kids to wear them and they are training their kids to wear them. Having attended many wrecks as both a Cop and a Fireman, I think its the smart thing to do and I encourage everyone to do the same. With that being said, the legislators could care less. The laws only exist because the Insurance Companies lobbied for years because it was costing them big bucks. It was not for the acceptable or the unacceptable risks our citizens were taking, it was the same thing that always enacts change...it cost somebody some money.

    Had the Insurance Companies not wined and dined and bribed our Congressmen and Senators and spent years doing it, we would still not have any seatbelt laws in place. They too have become a cash cow for many depts, and many places had laws in effect, (Arkansas was on of them) that stated that not wearing a seatbelt could not be a primary cause for a stop or a primary infraction. A couple of years ago that went away. Now, technically, if I am in my cruiser and I see you driving without a seat belt I can stop you and give you a ticket.

    When the law was being debated, it was added to it just to get it to pass. It rocked on a few years and then that restriction was removed.

    See how it works? People getting shot through windshields when coming to a hard stop had nothing to do with it. Like most other things, it was all about money...the same reason that we wont soon see the NFA repealed.
    Well, cynical as this is, I think you are right about motive. It was about money and not our welfare. Well, I'd like to think that at least some of the critters had our welfare in mind but I agree it wouldn't have happened if not for the insurance industry.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Another reason that we probably wont ever see unrestricted ownership of FA or SBS's or SBR's is because it is a cash cow for the government.

    There are lots of suppressors out there, lots of short barreled shotguns, lots of short barreled rifles. At 200 bucks a pop, I doubt that the Feds would want to lose yet another source of revenue.



    See how it works? People getting shot through windshields when coming to a hard stop had nothing to do with it. Like most other things, it was all about money...the same reason that we wont soon see the NFA repealed.
    Ok. I see your point. But not very many people want to go through the process, let alone pay $200, to get an auto. To me, the red tape, not the fee, is the detriment. Just think how many more people would line up and pay the money, if they would let us buy automatics, regardless of date of manufacture.

    If they would do that, it would increase the supply of such weapons, thus driving down the costs, making them more affordable for people. Then more people would buy, then the cash cow gets bigger. Heck, they could even cut the fee in half, and would probably still make money.

    Start with removing the date of manufacture stipulation, then move to make suppressors more accessible (it's a hearing protection issue). Bit by bit, through a lengthy process, it's possible to get our rights back on this issue.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Thats fine having to pay a 200 dollar tax on FA weapons. That might be another deterrent for the deranged wife or husband hater who dont have enough money to finish the purchase because of the extra 200 dollars. But leave it at that.

    Just dont outlaw FA weapons.

    That is the JIST of this original thread. We need our FA rights back for current technology. Not 30 years ago crap. NOW NOW NOW!!
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post

    I truly believe to the depth of my heart that a Man born of this country should no longer make him an American by birthright rather you must prove that you understand and fully support 100% of the founding documents that provide GOD given rights such as the right to defend one's castle and country the same with whatever gun they so choose.
    Can I contently object to that. I donít think a ďGod(s)Ē gave us anything. Also just like any religion people will get different meanings out of the same texts. Less so with legal documents but it will still be there.

    Personally Iím more a Lock person then Hobbes myself. Unfortunately people are not perfect, markets are not perfect, hence we need structure, rules, and oversight to try to aline the forces in society. Also I believe that national security can be a reason to suppress some information. But hey everyone has their own philosophical view or things.

    Out of curiosity are gods given rights the Amendments? bill of rights? Or something else?

  5. #65
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHassin View Post
    Can I contently object to that. I don’t think a “God(s)” gave us anything. Also just like any religion people will get different meanings out of the same texts. Less so with legal documents but it will still be there.

    Personally I’m more a Lock person then Hobbes myself. Unfortunately people are not perfect, markets are not perfect, hence we need structure, rules, and oversight to try to aline the forces in society. Also I believe that national security can be a reason to suppress some information. But hey everyone has their own philosophical view or things.

    Out of curiosity are gods given rights the Amendments? bill of rights? Or something else?
    If Ford makes a truck and creates the design, fabricates the frame, and paints the body, places the engine, and designs the way it is going to ultimately perform. Some one gives you that truck for free and said there are no expectations of you other than you should always cherish the freedom that this truck represents being that we spent the expense of labor, sweat, blood and investment to make this for you before you were even born.

    And you turn around and put a Chevy motor and a Dodge badge on it and then proclaim how great your Ford is but you dont agree with the engine or the brand so you changed it all.

    At that point you have lost the essence and the importance of the matter at hand. The matter being that the founding fathers designed a country built upon the bodies of men who boldly stood against the tyrannical machine that tried at every opportunity to destroy the natural born 'God" given rights that some of us cherish to this day.

    Should I be allowed to come to your home that you sweated, bled, and worked your back to the bone to purchase, build, and create, and force you to change the paint and plant trees because the very nature of the way your house looks to me offends me?

    Then why is that you as well as other so called "Americans" want to come to my country whether you were born here or not, be offended by what our "Fathers" sweated, toiled, bled and built for us to live in free as the birds that fly in the sky, and take away or change the way the house was built?

    Who does make you? Better than the founders? Are you better than the God they believed in when they built it?

    And to answer your question God given rights are the rights which any man would agree,

    "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!"

    Life - Its mine and I will defend at all cost and you my good sir have no ability to instruct me on how to defend that life which is mine not yours!

    Liberty - You my good sir do not have the right to take my Liberty in order to provide security for those whom would rather live in a society that begs for protection and handout from the same pack of wolves that would devour them without flinching.

    Pursuit of happiness - In keeping with the basic laws of nature and honest morality there is nothing that you should have the ability to do to stop me from being a happy individual, working for a living, building my castle, and working to defend that same castle, provide my own protection, and dictate my own life.

    Good enough answer for you?

    I will not post this on the site directly but you want to see how I feel about this nanny wha wha state that people identified with the mentality you presented click me......

    Read Real Men below

    Project MayHAM: Real Men....

    Whether you believe in a God or not is up to you. I would never expect anything other than your freedom to choose. However do NOT come to my house and change what my "Fathers" have handed down to me as well as you. To do so would be like spittin' in their eyes.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Religion has nothing to do with the NFA, so let's leave that crap out of it.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  7. #67
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Religion has nothing to do with the NFA, so let's leave that crap out of it.
    Exactly.....

    However this conversation cant be properly debated without a firm understanding of the mentality of the founders of this nation.

    Without that understanding you simply can not offer valuable substance based suggestions.

    If you read two post north of this one you will see where my argument is not about religion but about what the founders believed and how people want to manipulate and change that meaning to suit their own radical desires.

    I offered a black and white suggestion based on many years of off and on reading and studying the founders.

    So if other readers see the Word GOD please read into more unless obviously it is blatantly religious based. Then that is not anywhere in keeping with the substance of this topic.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    At that point you have lost the essence and the importance of the matter at hand. The matter being that the founding fathers designed a country built upon the bodies of men who boldly stood against the tyrannical machine that tried at every opportunity to destroy the natural born 'God" given rights that some of us cherish to this day.

    Who does make you? Better than the founders? Are you better than the God they believed in when they built it?

    And to answer your question God given rights are the rights which any man would agree,

    "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!"

    Whether you believe in a God or not is up to you.
    Gee, sure looks like you mentioned "God" a lot in that last post, yet you aren't bringing religion to the discussion? What does religion of the country's founders have to do with fully automatic firearms? NOTHING.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  9. #69
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    I would say a good one, and an interesting answer.
    I think more important then any view of god for the founding fathers, who where deists, it there philosophical background. For example the natural rights or god given rights are derived from John Locks work and influenced by Hobbes, which has deeper roots in Greek, and Arabia philosophy. They were also heavily exposed to Plato and the other Greek philosophers. I thinks it’s more accurate to say that the idea of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness came from there philosophical texts then a watchmaker god.
    What made me? Complex biological processes of carbon based molecules. Am I better then them who knows I’m no political philosopher or historian so I don’t think I am qualified to judge. Better then there god, I am going to take Descartes definition of god and say that if he did exist then he would be.

  10. #70
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Gee, sure looks like you mentioned "God" a lot in that last post, yet you aren't bringing religion to the discussion? What does religion of the country's founders have to do with fully automatic firearms? NOTHING.
    You in this response is general, not specific towards
    "You".

    Once again you have missed the mark.

    Everything that makes you who you are, your religion, your non religion, your beliefs or non beliefs, the way you like your eggs or the type of shoes you like to wear all make a difference in how you view the world around you and decide things ought to be in your world.

    The founders are no different than you and whether you like or not they believed in what they believed in and it what helped them to make the decisions about this country that were made.

    It isnt about God, godess, or a god, or gods. It is about the fact that people that try to change a system designed by the founders based on their principles in order to fit what they personally believe at the cost and expense of everyone else who don't want that.

    Our rights to keep and bear arms were never intended to have been under the level of fire they are now these days because people do not respect the belief system of those whom founded it.

    Until you understand what went through the thick boney skulls of people like Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, Washington, etc... you can never effectively define what their intention for 2a and the right to keep and bear arms is truly about.

    Yes they believed in God or a god at some level. Is this conversation about God no but in order to facilitate a substantial argument in favor for or against the right to keep and bear any arm you need to at least respect the beliefs of the fathers of this nation.

    There are more things to read about our founders than the Constitution and bill of rights which I reckon 80% of the member base on this forums have probably never fully read from end to end.

    If you are interested in reading about the founders in more details I will gladly post them in another thread, such as letters they wrote one another, federalist papers, original legislation proposed before and during the construction of this country, documentaries, books, and other fine materials to help people understand who they really were.

    Maybe after that folks may understand why it is important we regain and retain our rights to keep and bear fully automatic weapons as well as our current allowed inventories.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  11. #71
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    Meet the Planning and Zoning Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    Should I be allowed to come to your home that you sweated, bled, and worked your back to the bone to purchase, build, and create, and force you to change the paint and plant trees because the very nature of the way your house looks to me offends me?
    Meet The Planning and Zoning Commission in most towns and cities.

    Meet the architectural control committee of your home owner's association in the subdivision you live in.

    When you have 300+ million people crammed into only 6 million square miles (much of which isn't habitable), you need rules. The bigger the cram, the more rules you need.

    Davy Crockett went west legend has it because it was too crowded in Tenn. We don't have that freedom or option any longer. We have to make it work for everyone.

  12. #72
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I would expect the admins to lock down the thread at this point but lets see if we can regain momentum and bring this back to substance again.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  13. #73
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Meet The Planning and Zoning Commission in most towns and cities.

    Meet the architectural control committee of your home owner's association in the subdivision you live in.

    When you have 300+ million people crammed into only 6 million square miles (much of which isn't habitable), you need rules. The bigger the cram, the more rules you need.

    Davy Crockett went west legend has it because it was too crowded in Tenn. We don't have that freedom or option any longer. We have to make it work for everyone.
    First off I do not live in a Home Owners Assoc subdivision. I choose not to. Maybe you do but I choose not to live where you are forced to be part of the common benefit to all.

    So again you too missed the mark Hop.

    You are making that same argument that I should suffer equally under oppressive rules because you have to.

    That is not my America. Maybe yours. So if I want to have a fully automatic carbine in the back of my truck who are you to stop me. It is my right. Oh wait people have already stopped me against my will.

    So now my car is next. Guess I have to go and trade in my twin pipe tuned twin turbo Diesel truck that blows bellows of black smoke towing my trailer up the GA mountains for a Prius so you are happy.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    50 cal machine guns mounted to the back of your jeep cherokee.
    Nothing would make me happier then owning a Ma Deuce



    oorah
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Nothing would make me happier then owning a Ma Deuce


    oorah
    Sorry, tried to find you one, but this one is already sold......

    RAMO M2 .50BMG With Mount

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    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

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