No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back?

No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back?

This is a discussion on No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Seriously its starting to wear on me that we have no rights to Select Fire weapons. Why? I mean obviously the brady ban and other ...

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Thread: No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    No select fire is a violation of our rights... why cant we get them back?

    Seriously its starting to wear on me that we have no rights to Select Fire weapons. Why? I mean obviously the brady ban and other legislation was written to keep them out of our hands.

    But why is this any different than the prohibition of alcohol which we eventually got back the right to drink liquor and beer?

    Why are we not fight to get our RIGHTs back. To ban a gun is to ban the tools to self defense. To selectively ban guns is the selectively ban our rights to the tools for self defense.

    It would be like saying "we passed legislation that Karate is now banned but you can still practice King Fu".

    What can we gun owners do to get our right to select fire back?

    This isnt about the justifiable need of rapid fire weaponry. Who are you to decide that we dont need something. This is about my RIGHT to choose any weapon to defend my life with.

    Dont bring up grenade launchers and crap, we are not talking about that. Or 50 cal machine guns mounted to the back of your jeep cherokee.

    Be realistic, im talking about small arms.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I agree, have the same process just allow for weapons manufactured after 1986.
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  3. #3
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I'm of two opinions about this.

    The first, select fire weapons available to the general populace, I strongly support.

    I believe that if the military has it, we as the controlers and overseers of the military by whom we elect to office, should be allowed to own anything the military has. We are the rulers of our elected represenatives, in theory at least, and should have the same access to the same tools that those they oversee in our stead have.

    The second, and practical application of the idea leads me to believe that while some of us here would be able to handle the responsibility of owning and using fully automatic weapons, the majority of the populace is too stupid to be entrusted with as much as a water pistol.

    There in lies the conundrum of finding a balance between the two extremes. Personally I would favor being able to buy any weapon, fully automatic, select-fire, or single shot without any paperwork, tax stamps or fees beyond the cost of the weapon itself.

    Biker

  4. #4
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    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    What can we gun owners do to get our right to select fire back?
    If we can get enough popular support to repeal the NFA Tax on each item, it would be a start.

    Once the people become stupid enough to let the Federal Government dictate what they can tax or regulate, it's pretty much a right that is gone forever.

    You cant really compare it to prohibition, the numbers of people affected by it were much greater and even then it tooks years.

    The ownership of Full Auto weapons has become a rich mans sport and it a very exclusive club with not many people in it. Fact of the matter is...most people don't care.

    Even among the gun boards,you see people that cant think, making arguments against the ownership of them and they use the same arguments about owning FA weapons that the gun banners use against them and most of em aren't smart enough to see it.

    For now, to own a FA you must live in a state that allows it. Then, you must be fingerprinted like a common criminal and the FBI does a background check to prove that you are innocent. You have to ask the CLEO for permission. You have to provide a Mugshot of yourself. You have to pay 200 bucks and send it to the ATF. If the Feds deem you acceptable, several months later you'll get your permission slip that allows you to own the FA gun.

    It's bad out of kilter, but thats the way it is. When a hostile administration like the one we have now takes over, it would be a simple matter for them to raise the tax to 1000,10,000 or a million bucks. They could do that without ever getting into the political quagmire of "banning guns" and it would receive little if any press.

    Will it ever change?
    I hope that I am wrong, but I cant see it ever being any different.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I'd like to see them drop the pre 86 requirement and allow people to be able to buy new FA weapons at regular prices,I still think a different background check should be performed due to thugs trying to get their hands on them by doing straw purchases,and the General outcry from LEO talking about their officers being outgunned.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    With the average gun owners understanding of the political process, use of force laws, liability, the civil and criminal court process and the general lack of understanding of any point of view other than their own...

    I'm amazed we haven't lost MORE rights.


    People who strongly believe in their rights need to get EDUCATED and be able to stand for their rights effectively.

    Why don't we have select fire?

    Ugh. Brady didn't do that.

    The 1986 amendments to the NFA (Huges Amendment) restricted the transferability of full & select fire weapons manufactured after the enactment date, but didn't eliminate the transferability of those already in existence.

    Keep on keeping on, and don't be surprised if you can't respond effectively to some liberal who says "Well, nobody needs a machine gun! The second amendment was passed so people could hunt, not use semi-automatic-twin-carbine-machine-rifles!"

    Get educated.

    It's only your RIGHTS on the line!

    Wait...Hold on.

    It's not ONLY your rights on the line...

    It's everyone's rights!

    If you don't know this stuff, read up on it.
    If you don't know how to find the info, ask.

    Nobody cares about how you feel.
    Nobody cares what you think.

    What do you know?
    What kind of advocacy can you bring to the table?

    The loss of the right to bear arms is a right that free people get ONE chance to loose...and it never comes back short of a war.

    If we loose it because we are so ill informed about a subject that we purport to hold so dear, we deserve to live in chains.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    What can we gun owners do to get our right to select fire back?

    Learn.
    Read.
    Be able to express ourselves correctly.
    Be able to understand our opponents and be better advocates than they are.
    Be more active in politics that they are.
    Be better fund raisers than they are.
    Be able to hire better attorneys for litigation.

    Do not antagonize people who do not like guns due to their own fear (like some open carry folks have done in CA...and look what that got them...)

    How's that for an action plan?

    Also...encourage your kids to get into law school.

    You don't get pro-2a judges on the bench by magic. You have to have people in the profession entering now with your values to get them onto the bench 2 or 3 decades later.

    Maybe the NRA or the GOA or the JPFO would like to start a scholarship program to get people into the legal field? The more pro gun lawyer in the system, the better the chance of a pro gun judge...



    Nah.

    Lets just complain, shoot, stockpile ammo and open carry guns at Starbucks...

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    The second amendment was passed so people could hunt, not use semi-automatic-twin-carbine-machine-rifles!"
    You need to reread the second amendment,it has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with posessing firearms in defense of yourself and this country
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    You need to reread the second amendment,it has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with posessing[sic] firearms in defense of yourself and this country
    This was attributed to what an anti might argue. It is not the poster's belief.
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    We can get those type of guns. Just have to be a class 1 FFL dealer. I think.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    You need to reread the second amendment,it has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with posessing firearms in defense of yourself and this country
    I think MitchellCT was using the quote as an example of stupid people explaining the 2A....
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I think MitchellCT was using the quote as an example of stupid people explaining the 2A....
    Your right.The problem is people that have no idea about how a gun functions,calibers of guns etc. rely on what they hear people say that act like they know what they are talking about.I can tell you that everyone of my friends in High school would tell you if you held out your hand and got shot in the hand with a 45 acp it would either rip your arm off,or spin you around.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  13. #13
    Member Array narcberry's Avatar
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    If you read the 2A to give you rights, not some state/federal militia, than it must include large caliber weapons. If you don't think a 50 cal on a jeep is a right because it's total nonsense, then you must accept that fully automatic weapons, semi-autos, handguns, smgs, or anything else that scares sheep may also be legitimately banned.

    Sorry to bring it up, but I think it's worth mentioning since this is the argument you will eventually face trying to reclaim your rights. If you are unprepared to deal with this argument, you shouldn't push to legalize fully automatic weapons, it may end up with more restrictions on other things.
    Crime should be outlawed.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    We definitely need to start the process to remove some of these laws. There might be a (temporary) need to have a little more oversight/approval into full auto sales (apparently Miami is having illegal full auto AK issues) but denials should be the exception, not the rule.

    In case of an American v American doomsday scenario, at least the insurgents will be practicing more trigger control while the Federals are expending ammo. OK thats overly simplistic.
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  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by narcberry View Post
    If you don't think a 50 cal on a jeep is a right because it's total nonsense, then you must accept that fully automatic weapons, semi-autos, handguns, smgs, or anything else that scares sheep may also be legitimately banned.
    I stated that as the OP in order to prevent this thread from mutating into some semantic debate on what shouldn't be and what should be legalized.

    I do believe I should be able to mount a Dillon 7.62 mini to the back of my diesel ram. Will I? Probably not because I do not have $$175,000 to purchase that beast.

    I know that we can own FA weapons now but good lord the strings you have to afford, but for some odd reason why is my Colt LE6920 not Select Fire like the original design intended??????

    OH WAIT POLITICIANS BANNED IT unless I want to pay 35 large for an M16 from the Vietnam war era...

    Why do we have to be subject to such incredible fees, incredible laws banning currently manufactured auto weapons, etc....

    Get me now?

    And yet we gun owners insist on voting again and again for the same cronies!

    I do not mind paying a $200 NFA tax on certain weapons if we had the option to walk into a gun store and purchase a fully auto Glock 18 pistol or M4 Carbine etc.... Just eliminate the laws that ban the sale of guns post '86 to regular folks like you and I.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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