A well regulated militia...

This is a discussion on A well regulated militia... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; With all the gun laws currently in effect, haven't we reached the "well regulated" level yet? Just exactly is the point at which we're considered ...

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    A well regulated militia...

    With all the gun laws currently in effect, haven't we reached the "well regulated" level yet? Just exactly is the point at which we're considered well regulated?
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I think we reached that point a long time ago! Hopefully we are headed in the other direction!
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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    A very subjective question. Depends on who you ask.

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    Federalist Paper #29 in which Hamilton is discussing the composition of the militia says, "To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss." (emphasis added)

    Note that "well-regulated" clearly refers to how well the militia functions and how well trained are the militia members. It does not refer at all to the degree to which the government controls the militia or the members of the militia.

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    Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist, No. 29, did not view the right to keep arms as being confined to active militia members:

    What plan for the regulation of the militia may be pursued by the national government is impossible to be foreseen...The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution... Little more can reasonably be aimed at with the respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped ; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdydak View Post
    Federalist Paper #29 in which Hamilton is discussing the composition of the militia says, "To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss." (emphasis added)

    Note that "well-regulated" clearly refers to how well the militia functions and how well trained are the militia members. It does not refer at all to the degree to which the government controls the militia or the members of the militia.
    That's right, "regulated " meant something totally different when the 2nd Amendment was written! Never meant to "control" the militia by the government!
    During the Civil War, an officer was quoted when describing his artillery, "the canon fire was well regulated". He was saying that it was effective. Not that the government could control it!!!
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    The next amendment is: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.
    Justice Story (appointed to the Supreme Court as an Associate Justice by James Madison in 1811), wrote a constitutional commentary in 1833
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    I just love that quote.
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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    All these regulations and criminals still manage to get the guns they want, which should serve as a clue that more regulation isn't the answer to reducing violent crime.
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    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Not so well regulated when you have a fair number of us siding with antigunners about "assualt weapons, and concealed carry", and then divided again upon various political leanings/gripes.

    Perhaps though I am a bit jaded.
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    Just when did words like "well regulated" change their meanings? Me thinks it smacks of the like of William Jefferson Clinton who changed the meanings of words to suit his moods. Words should mean the same today as they did when our founding fathers penned them. At this rate "freedom" will have little to do with being free. Vote 'em all out in Nov.!

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    Well, it was really just a play on words when I posted, knowing that "well regulated" had nothing to do with gun laws.

    "and domestic usurpations of power by rulers"
    In this quote, however, I think we may be getting there!
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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    besides that gun control laws are not regulation... they are restriction.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Yeah regulation would be making shore everyone in the age bracket did calisthenics and was not obese. also means getting a better command and control system down and all other fun organizing things.

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    Regulation, in its original meaning, is supposed to mean "keep regular". The entire term has been completely distorted now. Every gun restriction is the opposite of the original intent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdydak View Post
    Federalist Paper #29 in which Hamilton is discussing the composition of the militia says, "To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss." (emphasis added)

    Note that "well-regulated" clearly refers to how well the militia functions and how well trained are the militia members. It does not refer at all to the degree to which the government controls the militia or the members of the militia.




    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Regulation, in its original meaning, is supposed to mean "keep regular". The entire term has been completely distorted now. Every gun restriction is the opposite of the original intent.
    and

    It's like the term "Gun Control."

    To me it means hitting what you intended when you intended.

    Others seem to be on different page.
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