Batfe Raids Kt Ordnance

This is a discussion on Batfe Raids Kt Ordnance within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. P.O. Box 270143 Hartford, WI 53027 Phone (262) 673-9745 Fax (262) 673-9746 June 8, 2006 BATFE RAIDS ...

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Thread: Batfe Raids Kt Ordnance

  1. #1
    Member Array Angio333's Avatar
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    Batfe Raids Kt Ordnance

    Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc.
    P.O. Box 270143
    Hartford, WI 53027
    Phone (262) 673-9745
    Fax (262) 673-9746

    June 8, 2006

    BATFE RAIDS KT ORDNANCE!

    Yesterday we received word that KT Ordnance, manufacturer of incomplete (80%-finished) frames, was raided for the alleged "illegal manufacture of firearms." KT Ordnance has been a great asset to those who wish to purchase unfinished receivers with which to anonymously manufacture their own firearms -- a perfectly legal process, according to the BATFE website ( http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a6 ).

    You can see from photos of the AR-15 kit ( http://www.jpfo.org/kto1.jpg and www.jpfo.org/kto2.jpg) that the product cannot possibly be a functioning "firearm" -- it's simply a chunk of metal! So how can this happen?

    Early reports suggest that -- as Len Savage warned us in his "Talkin' to America" interview ( http://www.jpfo.org/tta060508.htm ) -- the BATFE has arbitrarily decided that certain products have the "features and characteristics" of firearms. As can be expected, there exists _no_ definition of exactly what "features and characteristics" are in question at this time.

    Other reports indicate that much of KT Ordnance's inventory is being confiscated, and computer hard drives have been duplicated, although the computers themselves remain at KT Ordnance's location.

    It appears that certain government agents are indeed getting desperate. Richard Celata, owner of KT Ordnance, has been a long-time supporter of JPFO and a staunch defender of the Second Amendment (see our alert at http://www.jpfo.org/alert20050513.htm ). Did the raid take place because of his association with a Jewish civil rights organization? Was it related to the upcoming UN Conference on small arms ( http://www.jpfo.org/alert20060523.htm )? Or could it be because too many gun owners are discovering that building their own firearms is simple, anonymous, and LEGAL (according to the BATFE's own site -- see above)?

    Details on the raid are at this time very, VERY sketchy. We will continue to report on this outrageous, vindictive action by the BATFE as more information comes in. Visitors to the KT Ordnance website will note that the site is no longer online. Richard has informed us that this was to prevent orders from coming in during this time, as there is no way to know what is being monitored or otherwise tracked by BATFE.

    JPFO and Gun Owners of America (www.gunowners.org) are working to establish legal defense for KT Ordnance, and will keep you posted on our progress. In the meantime, please spread the word far and wide about this outrageous, indefensible action by the BATFE. Ask questions and _demand answers_ from those in power who claim they are "friends" of gun owners.

    We must do what we can to help and support our brothers-in-arms at KT Ordnance.

    - The Liberty Crew
    -----------------------------------------------

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  3. #2
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    I will await more and definitive news on this but - from that report -
    As can be expected, there exists _no_ definition of exactly what "features and characteristics" are in question at this time.
    This very grey aspect is concerning - just how grey can things be made to be?!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Innocent untill PROVEN guilty If yo u are at all aware of this you should know that a healthy dose of local politics may well be involved . The raid does not pass the sniff test to me at this poit anyway.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    just how grey can things be made to be?!
    "Extremely". If it has been institutionally decided that production/repair of firearms is going to be drastically curtailed, the argument is that the replacement of barrels, firing pins, extractors, bolts and breech faces (slides), instrumentally support the "destruction of evidence", or the "hinderance of due prosecution". The ATF requires no Congressional approval- they simply issue "Findings". This stuff can literally change overnight, guys. Yes, a Finding can be challenged, but it will not replace seized, destroyed, property.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Very Disturbing

    "Other reports indicate that much of KT Ordnance's inventory is being confiscated, and computer hard drives have been duplicated, although the computers themselves remain at KT Ordnance's location. "

    Although this among other things, is why some of us plan for such occasions. All I have to say is: Hot-swap drives + thermite.

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    And you know what's on those hard drives - sales records. Who else will be getting no-knocks on their doors?
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Betty possibly not , My understanding is that Rick kept NO computerized sales records , and even paper records were shreaded upon completion of an order . Rick is an interesting character with some of his beliefs and attitudes . He has some imho " out there " ideas , but I will say he is true to them and an honorable man from what I know of him .. What he did loose is all his " intellectual property " and possibly software ( I understand atf wiped the drives after they imaged them ) so all his designs , cad drawings and instructions ect.. are now gone .

    Its a rough thing for him and I have NO idea of the probable cause for the raid , but as far as I know he has never stepped over the line legally no matter his hatred of the gvt. time will tell us just what is up with this as well as the " local politics " that I alluded to earlier .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  9. #8
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Must be funding review time again and no women and children to be found anywhere. The ATF Looks more and more like the Gestapo every day IMHO.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Reportadly Canadian LE was onsite and with the timeing on the terror busts up there it leads one to wonder if one of his 80% frames turned up in thier investigation .

    Just a thought not saying that is what happened .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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