Virginia schools & NRA-only gun education...

Virginia schools & NRA-only gun education...

This is a discussion on Virginia schools & NRA-only gun education... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; in the option of Dan Casey. Wonder if the "the law until the General Assembly convenes next year" is a educated guess or has some ...

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Thread: Virginia schools & NRA-only gun education...

  1. #1
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    Virginia schools & NRA-only gun education...

    in the option of Dan Casey.

    Wonder if the "the law until the General Assembly convenes next year" is a educated guess or has some anti told him something?

    Virginia schools get NRA-only gun education - Roanoke.com

    Metro columnist Dan Casey: Virginia schools get NRA-only gun education
    By Dan Casey

    Imagine the uproar across Virginia if the state developed a pregnancy-prevention program for 8-year-old school kids based on materials supplied by the National Abortion Rights Action League.

    Virginians would be legitimately outraged, because NARAL is a lobbying group for abortion clinics.

    Something similar occurred this year in the Virginia General Assembly with guns, but so far it has raised few eyebrows.

    The new law prescribes a gun-education curriculum for Virginia elementary schools, based upon materials provided by the National Rifle Association's "Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program."

    Late in the game, Gov. Bob McDonnell made a seemingly innocuous change that effectively limited curriculum input to the NRA.

    That came after the NRA's political action committee spent $622,000 last fall on radio, television and online ads promoting McDonnell for governor.

    This is what happened: House Bill 1217 was introduced by Del. Lynwood Lewis, D-Accomack County.

    Under it, local boards of education would have the option of offering the program to students in kindergarten through fifth grade. But the law requires they follow the state-mandated curriculum if they offer any gun safety education.

    In the version that emerged from the General Assembly, the bill required the curriculum be based on materials developed by the NRA and the National Crime Prevention Center.

    There was just one hitch when it got to McDonnell's desk, according to Stacey Johnson, McDonnell's spokeswoman.

    "When we researched National Crime Prevention Center -- it became evident that no such entity existed," she wrote in an e-mail Tuesday.

    "The assumption was that it is a reference to the National Crime Prevention Council," she continued. (That's the outfit that has made McGruff the Crime Dog famous.)

    But, Johnson added, "the council acknowledges their gun safety curriculum is out of date and would have to be updated."

    Rather than change the word "Center" to "Council," the governor instead deleted any reference to the latter organization. The General Assembly agreed to the change.

    McDonnell, she added, supported the bill "because educating children on firearm safety is a good way to help prevent accidents."

    That is one way of looking at it, for sure.

    Another perspective comes from the Violence Policy Center, a nonprofit lobbying group in Washington that often advocates for gun control.

    On Tuesday, I spoke with Josh Sugarmann, the center's executive director.

    He likened the costumed mascot Eddie Eagle to an infamous tobacco industry marketing campaign aimed at getting children interested in smoking.

    "It's Joe Camel with feathers," Sugarmann said.

    "The bottom line is the Eddie Eagle program is a gun-marketing program masquerading as a gun safety program," Sugarmann added. "It fails to follow the basic rule: to protect children, you have to warn of the risk. Eddie Eagle never says that guns kill. If you say that guns kill, then kids may not want guns later."

    The program does not use guns and teaches children who find them to not touch them, to leave the area and tell an adult, according to the NRA's Web site.

    Until we spoke, Sugarmann was unaware that the NRA's Political Victory Fund had spent more than $600,000 to promote McDonnell's candidacy, independent of the governor's campaign.

    Those numbers came from the Virginia Public Access Project, which tracks campaign donations to Virginia politicians.

    "I'm surprised, not shocked," he said. "The NRA is expert at this, in utilizing their influence on the state level to try and move forward their agenda."

    The gun lobbying group never contacted the McDonnell administration about the bill, Johnson said.

    You'll have to decide for yourself what conclusions, if any, to draw from the changes McDonnell made to the bill, in light of the expenditures on his behalf by the NRA.

    It seems to me that the only good thing is, local boards of education still have the option of not offering the NRA's program in elementary schools.

    At least that's the law until the General Assembly convenes next year.

    Dan Casey's column runs Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    This guy is mentally handicapped. What does the Brady Bunch know about gun safety that isn't political?
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    My reply on his blog

    46.

    How can you support more training for adults who want to carry but no training for children who might find a gun and be curious – to the point of disaster?

    Children do come across guns. That is a fact of life. They exist. At some point any number of children will come across one. Some owner will be irresponsible. Someone will carry one into a school. Just check the front page of today’s paper – for but one example.

    Children come upon a gun is a fact of life that ignorance cannot wish away.

    IMHO, there are two different issues here.

    1) What should be taught in schools, at all?

    2) Should the NRA Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program be the only approved program?

    First, most folk have little or no problem with schools working/teaching children to help make them safe from sex, drugs, fire or vehicles. Most folk don’t think that it is better by NOT educating them in/about safety in those areas. In those areas most don’t agree with the idea that “Ignorance is bliss.” Most of us agree that ignorance is dangerous and irresponsible.

    Of course, there are some who would have the school stay out of all those areas. There are some insist that those area should be off limits to schools and should be addressed only at home.

    What is the difference between ignorance and the schools responsibility in the areas of sex, drugs, fire or vehicles vs. guns?

    Second, NRA Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program is the only program that is up and running that is not value laden. Have you actually seen/studied the program? If not, check out at: Eddie Eagle Safety Program

    What is the problem with:

    If you see a gun:
    STOP!
    Don't Touch.
    Leave the Area.
    Tell an Adult.

    “Begun in 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has reached more than 21 million children -- in all 50 states. This program was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.” from the above Web site.

    Study the program and show me where there is anything that promotes pro-gun [fill-in-the-blank with whatever].

    As for alternatives, do you know of any currently available program that is not value laden?

    National Crime Prevention Council could be considered anti-gun in the strictest sense. IMHO, unlike other "violence prevention" groups, they actually cover a wide gamut of crime and safety issues and seem fairly reasonable about gun issues, even if I don't personally agree with them on a few of their positions.

    They are the group that introduced "McGruff the crime dog" and their site is generally pretty non-committal on gun ownership. Their original kid's gun safety program seems to be very similar to the Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program. However, they have advised that their program is out of date and needs to be revised. IF the revision does not introduce “fear the gun”, “guns are bad”, etc, I’d have little problem with it being used also. IMHO, their program would be a viable alternative to Eddie Eagle Gun Safe, if not significantly changed from what it was.

    So, if you agree that safety should be taught our children, NRA Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program is the only game in town, at this point.

    Once others are up and running, they should be evaluated to be sure that are value neutral. If so, why not make them an alternative?

    Comment by DaveH — May 28, 2010 @ 11:46 am
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  4. #4
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    Good LTE

    If we can teach sex ed, we can teach gun safety - Roanoke.com

    If we can teach sex ed, we can teach gun safety

    Re: "Virginia schools get NRA-only gun education," May 27 Dan Casey column:

    Don't be so quick to judge. If I have one soapbox issue in my life, it's that all small children should be taught over and over (first grade through sixth grade) the danger of guns and how to handle them responsibly. Absolutely, they ought to be taught that guns can kill.

    Teaching gun safety to youngsters is every bit as important as having sex education in schools for teens or teaching fire safety in schools. All are matters of life and death.

    I'm not necessarily saddened when two criminals get into a spiff and one blows the other away with a gun. That's a totally different subject. However, I am sickened, as surely you and all caring people are, when a child innocently gets his hands on a gun and accidentally kills or maims someone or himself because he has no clue about the danger or safe handling of a gun. These are the accidents we can and must prevent.

    If it's OK to have sex ed in the schools for the children's good, it's certainly OK to teach gun safety as well. It's for their safety and well-being.

    Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to guns.

    JOSEPH MARKS
    ROANOKE
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    As a retired teacher I see some issues here that most of you don't. First and foremost, I believe firearms safety should be taught in the school system, along with some sex education and drug ed. I was taught gun and hunting safety at school every year before hunting season.

    The issue here is in taking a canned program (NRA program) and saying it is education when taught in the school system. I worked in curriculum design at system level and I see some of the concerns.

    First off, who is going to teach it? If some 22 year old who has never held a gun in their life, it will not be taken serious by the kids and it will probably be fraught with errors. For sure some bias will creep in. The kids will ask questions and they should receive valid answers.

    Either gun-experienced teachers should be trained or already trained civilian Firearm Safety Instructors should be utilized in the instruction phase. Schools already do this with Fire Safety and Crime Prevention by using Fire Department Personnel and LEOs (Usually Sheriff Deputies or School Resource Officers) as Instructors. Children need to receive face to face Instruction and some practical guidance in these subjects, not just a quick video and some pamphlets.

    If the school Board has approved the NRA program it has undoubtedly undergone a review ( a normal process and usually required by law ) and it has been found to teach the goals they desire. The issue again is simply, who is going to teach it?
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Either gun-experienced teachers should be trained or already trained civilian Firearm Safety Instructors should be utilized in the instruction phase. Schools already do this with Fire Safety and Crime Prevention by using Fire Department Personnel and LEOs (Usually Sheriff Deputies or School Resource Officers) as Instructors. Children need to receive face to face Instruction and some practical guidance in these subjects, not just a quick video and some pamphlets.
    I have no issue with that.

    Most schools here in Virginia have School Resource Officers. Most School Resource Officers already teach DARE and/or do other safety instruction. I'd see no problem with them teaching it.

    OTOH, in some jurisdictions (NOVA & Tidewater) the School Resource Officers might be just as likely as a teacher to present info fraught with errors and to introduce bias.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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