DOJ Says ATF Unprepared for WMD Response

This is a discussion on DOJ Says ATF Unprepared for WMD Response within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For those of you that would like more information on the picture as presented - here is a link to a story that shows the ...

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Thread: DOJ Says ATF Unprepared for WMD Response

  1. #16
    Member Array CenterOfMass's Avatar
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    For those of you that would like more information on the picture as presented - here is a link to a story that shows the agent in question during an ATF raid on a Louisiana Gun shop in '07.

    The picture speaks volumes about the endemic problems with the ATF.

    Three arrested in raid on Jefferson gun store | NOLA.com
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  3. #17
    Member Array soonershoote's Avatar
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    For natural disasters, I guess they (ATF) can muddle through the steps of getting to the site and working with other LEO agencies in doing whatever they think they should be doing.
    As for the release of WMD's, forget about it. At least half of the federal workforce will not be able to go to the site because they will lack proper training and protective gear. Some will just flat-out refuse to go, too. Any release of WMD's and state and locals will be on their own for days or weeks...
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  4. #18
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    There's no way ANYONE in our Govt is ready for this. You can write up all the plans you want, conduct all the studies you want, drill or whatever...a no kidding briefcase nuke in a major metro area will demonstrate how jacked up we are. As usual, it will be up to the individual citizenry on the ground to take care of each other until they can vacate the area and try to survive for the 3+weeks it will take for our Govt to catch up. Katrina should've demonstrated that.

    As far as the pic of the ATF agent goes...I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Doing otherwise plays into the hands of those who think most of us are close-minded racists.

  5. #19
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Wow. I didin't realize Marge Simpson worked for the ATF...

  6. #20
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  7. #21
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    re:Bandolero --access to crime scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Bandolero View Post
    If there needs to be a federal criminal investigation response component to a WMD attack, then DOJ will be closely involved. For example the site of the attack will be a crime scene. There will need to be control measures for access to the crime scene as evidence is sought, collected, analyzed, etc.
    .
    Uh, I am presuming the WMD is a nuclear device. Radiation will take care of access issues--- ultra high temps will have vaporized all evidence. There won't be a crime scene left.

    That is why the whole idea of "we need a plan" is ridiculous. The plan will be rapid massive retaliation to whatever target the national government thinks had any role. And it will be assistance to those still alive and fleeing. Now, if by WMD you are talking about something that shouldn't be called a WMD, e.g., a live grenade, then yes, ATF has a role and a purpose. Funny how we have come to twist our language. For most of my adult life WMD meant only one thing, a nuclear device.

    Detectives aren't going to be searching the ground or the ruins in the aftermath for security tapes.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Uh, I am presuming the WMD is a nuclear device. Radiation will take care of access issues--- ultra high temps will have vaporized all evidence. There won't be a crime scene left.

    That is why the whole idea of "we need a plan" is ridiculous. The plan will be rapid massive retaliation to whatever target the national government thinks had any role. And it will be assistance to those still alive and fleeing. Now, if by WMD you are talking about something that shouldn't be called a WMD, e.g., a live grenade, then yes, ATF has a role and a purpose. Funny how we have come to twist our language. For most of my adult life WMD meant only one thing, a nuclear device.

    Detectives aren't going to be searching the ground or the ruins in the aftermath for security tapes.
    My mistake on this, there are other weapons that are considered WMDs that are non-nuclear right now, Anthrax and others that would require investigative teams that could enter the areas affected to search of clues or evidence.
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  9. #23
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    re: Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    My mistake on this, there are other weapons that are considered WMDs that are non-nuclear right now, Anthrax and others that would require investigative teams that could enter the areas affected to search of clues or evidence.
    Anthrax = weapon of mass hysteria, not mass destruction. I know that I am quibbling with words, but I get irritated (not with you Guardian) but with the general misuse of words with horrific initial meaning in trivial ways.

    Decimated is often misused
    Holocaust is misused
    Rape is misused
    WMD is misused
    Terroristic threats is also greatly misused. Nowadays the adjective gets thrown around loosely to make an ordinary Stop and Rob beer thief look like a terrorist.

    Examples of only a small subset. Each has had a very specific limited meaning but been transformed through careless usage---particularly by
    TV broadcasters and editorial writers, into something other than the original meaning.

    Anyway, in my mind, WMD means a nuclear weapon; possibly poison gas if it is capable of being widely dispersed. Everything else may be a powerful weapon, an insidious weapon, a biological weapon, whatever, but it won't fall in the same category as something that reproduces (in a sense) the big bang here on earth.

    So, back on topic, I can see ATF involved in episodes which involve things like small bombs (being misnamed as WMDs), but for the real deal---no one will be pushing toward the radiation.
    Last edited by Hopyard; June 6th, 2010 at 09:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I can see the ATF dealing with IEDs, but not with any weapon of mass proportions.

    What constitutes mass destruction? In Hopyard's nuclear scenario, the ATF is way out of their league.
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