NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed - Page 2

NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed

This is a discussion on NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It appears that you won't have a problem with home occupation via Internet with NYC, I doubt that I would engage in any further conversation ...

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Thread: NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed

  1. #16
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    It appears that you won't have a problem with home occupation via Internet with NYC, I doubt that I would engage in any further conversation with the landlord regarding the business.

    Do you have a Business License for NY? Do you need a Home Occupation Permit?

    http://www.nys-permits.org/

    If you have everything necessary from the City and State, I doubt that ATF will deny your FFL.

    I think you are almost there. Good luck.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    It appears that you won't have a problem with home occupation via Internet with NYC, I doubt that I would engage in any further conversation with the landlord regarding the business.

    Do you have a Business License for NY? Do you need a Home Occupation Permit?

    If you have everything necessary from the City and State, I doubt that ATF will deny your FFL.

    I think you are almost there. Good luck.
    1. Do you have a Business License for NY? My company is a registered LLC.
    2. Do you need a Home Occupation Permit? No but I do have my DUNS & EIN numbers.
    3. The property owner is of no immediate concern.


    They changed my FFL01 address back to my residence address and will be here at 10:00 AM on 08.20.10. They must really like me as two Industry Operations Investigators are coming one male one female.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrreynolds View Post
    1. Do you have a Business License for NY? My company is a registered LLC.
    2. Do you need a Home Occupation Permit? No but I do have my DUNS & EIN numbers.
    3. The property owner is of no immediate concern.


    They changed my FFL01 address back to my residence address and will be here at 10:00 AM on 08.20.10. They must really like me as two Industry Operations Investigators are coming one male one female.
    Yes, I noticed that you have an EIN and an LLC. I believe you will still need to file for an NY Retail Sales License and a City Business Permit. once issued to you with a NY State Tax ID Number, you will file quarterly sales tax returns. You will collect tax from non exempt NY State buyers. Even if you have no sales tax for the quarter you need to send in the forms. In my state, they send me a tax voucher booklet for the year. Keep a copy of it and any check you write, You will need it when you file your IRS Schedule C attached to your 1040. If there is more that one LLC member you will file form 1065, same as a partnership.

    They may be sending two agents for training purposes.

    It is a good sign if they walk in with an arm load of books and other stuff. It might take a couple hours.

    They like donuts and coffee.
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Yes, I noticed that you have an EIN and an LLC. I believe you will still need to file for an NY Retail Sales License and a City Business Permit. once issued to you with a NY State Tax ID Number, you will file quarterly sales tax returns. You will collect tax from non exempt NY State buyers. Even if you have no sales tax for the quarter you need to send in the forms. In my state, they send me a tax voucher booklet for the year. Keep a copy of it and any check you write, You will need it when you file your IRS Schedule C attached to your 1040. If there is more that one LLC member you will file form 1065, same as a partnership.

    They may be sending two agents for training purposes.

    It is a good sign if they walk in with an arm load of books and other stuff. It might take a couple hours.

    They like donuts and coffee.
    The EIN is my Sales Tax ID number they use the same number. There is no specific city permit unless you want to sell second hand firearms other then that you either get a Business Certificate from the Court as a Sole Proprietor or go the state route such as what I did.

    The exception is if you have a retail store then you have to get a Dealer in Firearms and / or Dealer in Rifle & Shotguns permit / license from the NYPD except Wholesale Dealers are not considered dealers in Firearms or Rifles & Shotguns.

    Dealer in rifles and shotguns. The term "dealer in rifles and shotguns" shall mean any person, firm, partnership, corporation or company who engages in the business of purchasing, selling, keeping for sale, loaning, leasing, or in any manner disposing of any rifle or shotgun. Dealer in rifles and shotguns shall not include a wholesale dealer.

    Dealer in air pistols, air rifles or similar instruments. The term "Dealer in air pistols, air rifles or similar instruments" shall mean any person, firm, partnership, corporation or company who engages in the business of purchasing, selling, keeping for sale, loaning, leasing, or in any manner disposing of, any air pistol, air rifle or similar instrument.

    Dealer in air pistols, air rifles or similar instruments shall not include a wholesale dealer. Dealer in firearms. The term “dealer in firearms" shall mean any person, firm, partnership, corporation or company who engages in the business of purchasing, selling, keeping for sale, loaning, leasing, or in any manner disposing of, any pistol or revolver. Dealer in firearms shall not include a wholesale dealer.

    The NYPD told me if I'm internet based that's between myself and the ATF they are only interested in physical firearm sales I transact face to face from said location hence no face to face retail sales from my residence doesn't apply to me.

    I don't think anyone else in NYC has done what I'm about to do I asked the Senior ATF Inspector in NYC and he said I was the first he was aware of as far as the internet dealer from a residence. The NYPD may turn around and attempt to get a bit touchy i'll update when I reach that point.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrreynolds View Post
    The EIN is my Sales Tax ID number they use the same number. There is no specific city permit unless you want to sell second hand firearms other then that you either get a Business Certificate from the Court as a Sole Proprietor or go the state route such as what I did.

    As Long as the city and state has a means to collect taxes from you they may not waste the paper issuing you licenses or permits.



    I don't think anyone else in NYC has done what I'm about to do I asked the Senior ATF Inspector in NYC and he said I was the first he was aware of as far as the Internet dealer from a residence. The NYPD may turn around and attempt to get a bit touchy i'll update when I reach that point.
    Any gun shop or big box sporting goods store with a website for on-line sales is doing exactly what you are doing except they also conduct sales over the counter.
    If all goes well, the agents should bring your FFL with them. You sign and date the license and you are an FFL.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Any gun shop or big box sporting goods store with a website for on-line sales is doing exactly what you are doing except they also conduct sales over the counter.
    If all goes well, the agents should bring your FFL with them. You sign and date the license and you are an FFL.
    I'm referring to an individual with no gun shop or big box sporting goods store living in the five boroughs of NYC. 08.20.10 my two investigators arrived spent two hours and I was told my C&R is looking good (in NYC they drill you for a C&R as well) stated they just have to verify if the NYPD has any issues with an internet FFL01. If not I should be good to go. I called the NYPD but the individual who handles it is not in until Monday.

    One of them suggested I join the ATF seeing as how I was aware of many of their regulations it went smooth got a big 50 state book and a little C&R one too.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrreynolds View Post
    I'm referring to an individual with no gun shop or big box sporting goods store living in the five boroughs of NYC. 08.20.10 my two investigators arrived spent two hours and I was told my C&R is looking good (in NYC they drill you for a C&R as well) stated they just have to verify if the NYPD has any issues with an internet FFL01. If not I should be good to go. I called the NYPD but the individual who handles it is not in until Monday.

    One of them suggested I join the ATF seeing as how I was aware of many of their regulations it went smooth got a big 50 state book and a little C&R one too.
    What a great way to end up the week.

    Did they go through the Regulations with you? Ask you if you had any questions?
    It may seem that what you are doing in NYC is a bit unusual. When you speak to NYPD, stress to them the amount of your business that is non-firearms such as tactical apparel, holsters, etc. Explain to them that you will not be keeping ANY inventory of firearms or ammo on your premises except your personal SD firearm(s). Explain drop shipping to them and also show them the ATF reg. pertaining to this.

    The only problem I can see might actually with C&R. It is difficult to buy or sell used guns by Internet and even more difficult to buy or sell C&R without inspecting the firearm. There are several reproductions that are good enough to fool all but an expert. You would almost have to keep C&R at home. You might need a gun safe.

    Your are at least one step closer now. If you can meet NYPD in person, I think that would best.

    Good luck next week!

    BTY, You might actually want to look into ATF. If you set up the Internet business correctly, it is possible to do both.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    What a great way to end up the week.

    Did they go through the Regulations with you? Ask you if you had any questions?
    It may seem that what you are doing in NYC is a bit unusual. When you speak to NYPD, stress to them the amount of your business that is non-firearms such as tactical apparel, holsters, etc. Explain to them that you will not be keeping ANY inventory of firearms or ammo on your premises except your personal SD firearm(s). Explain drop shipping to them and also show them the ATF reg. pertaining to this.

    The only problem I can see might actually with C&R. It is difficult to buy or sell used guns by Internet and even more difficult to buy or sell C&R without inspecting the firearm. There are several reproductions that are good enough to fool all but an expert. You would almost have to keep C&R at home. You might need a gun safe.

    Your are at least one step closer now. If you can meet NYPD in person, I think that would best.

    Good luck next week!

    BTY, You might actually want to look into ATF. If you set up the Internet business correctly, it is possible to do both.
    Yes they went through the check-list had me initial some items on the application(s) asked me if I had any questions but I was already asking questions before they asked me. They were very impressed by the amount of research I did beforehand and the additional questions I asked during the interview they were real laid back no stress or anything. He told me that if it wasn't for the state and local red tape I would already have my licenses as far as the ATF is concerned.

    My primary investigator is real cool he stresses the internet based portion of my business when he contacts agencies to let them know exactly how i'm set up. My biggest hurdle was the zoning he told me he contacted them personally and they gave me a go on the internet sales (no retail) so that was important. Thanks for all your support I will contact the NYPD again on Monday I have some ballistic armor items that I want to take to them to review in the future anyway so I plan on getting to know as many people there as I can.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    So, if I have this right..... the landlord just told you he's vetoed your 2A rights since this is your "residence". He's not only saying your business, but YOU.

    Well, the 2A lawsuits have occurred in DC, then Chicago.... which everyone knew they would. I guess NY and Calif are next in line.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    So, if I have this right..... the landlord just told you he's vetoed your 2A rights since this is your "residence". He's not only saying your business, but YOU.

    Well, the 2A lawsuits have occurred in DC, then Chicago.... which everyone knew they would. I guess NY and Calif are next in line.
    The ATF viewed my lease and disregarded my property owner he has no say.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrreynolds View Post
    My biggest hurdle was the zoning he told me he contacted them personally and they gave me a go on the Internet sales (no retail) so that was important. Thanks for all your support I will contact the NYPD again on Monday I have some ballistic armor items that I want to take to them to review in the future anyway so I plan on getting to know as many people there as I can.
    Zoning is a big hurdle. You have a conditional verbal agreement in kind with a zoning official. He stipulates that Internet sales are permitted but no retail.
    I have two suggestions for you to consider before you contact or meet with your CLEO at NYPD.

    1. Get a signed letter from NYC zoning that stipulates the conditional Use of your business, i.e., No Over The Counter Retail Sales are permitted. E-commerce sales are permitted. No inventory is to be stored on premises. Non-firearms sales samples are permitted, etc. Without a letter you have no proof. Suppose you go to renew and the zoning official is no longer there or does not recall a conversation with you. The reason you must have zoning clarification of E-commerce sales vs. traditional over the counter sales should be apparent. Your are not a professional office, you are not a wholesaler, you are not a manufacturer's representative, you are not a broker, you are classified as Retail. You should have or will have a New York State Retail Sales License and you will collect retail sales tax. I still find it difficult to believe that no city permit or business license is required. NYC requires a permit for just about everything. It is all about collecting taxes.

    2. I would not take any sample merchandise of any type to a meeting with NYPD yet. Zoning and NYPD are both city government. NYPD will likely also contact zoning to assure the proposed business is of a conforming Use. It would not be in your interest to imply to NYPD that you have commenced business without their sign-off. Imagine what the CLEO might think. Zoning says no retail sales on the premises but the man walks in carrying body armor. That's not selling? What else is he doing?
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Zoning is a big hurdle. You have a conditional verbal agreement in kind with a zoning official. He stipulates that Internet sales are permitted but no retail.
    I have two suggestions for you to consider before you contact or meet with your CLEO at NYPD.

    1. Get a signed letter from NYC zoning that stipulates the conditional Use of your business, i.e., No Over The Counter Retail Sales are permitted. E-commerce sales are permitted. No inventory is to be stored on premises. Non-firearms sales samples are permitted, etc. Without a letter you have no proof. Suppose you go to renew and the zoning official is no longer there or does not recall a conversation with you. The reason you must have zoning clarification of E-commerce sales vs. traditional over the counter sales should be apparent. Your are not a professional office, you are not a wholesaler, you are not a manufacturer's representative, you are not a broker, you are classified as Retail. You should have or will have a New York State Retail Sales License and you will collect retail sales tax. I still find it difficult to believe that no city permit or business license is required. NYC requires a permit for just about everything. It is all about collecting taxes.

    2. I would not take any sample merchandise of any type to a meeting with NYPD yet. Zoning and NYPD are both city government. NYPD will likely also contact zoning to assure the proposed business is of a conforming Use. It would not be in your interest to imply to NYPD that you have commenced business without their sign-off. Imagine what the CLEO might think. Zoning says no retail sales on the premises but the man walks in carrying body armor. That's not selling? What else is he doing?
    The ATF investigator confirmed it personally with the Director of the Zoning department and documented it otherwise they would have stopped processing the license at that point. I have the email from the Zoning Director as well. I can store firearms because I am licensed to possess firearms at my residence I just can't have customers come to my residence I'm not prohibited from shipping and receiving. Mail order is permissible.

    I have my tax ID number therefore they can collect sales tax I can sell merchandise I just can't have the NYPD or anyone else come here to purchase it and I am a professional office because I run the administrative functions of my company from home this is where I do paperwork make and receive calls.

    I can show them samples of non FFL merchandise if they choose to purchase then it will go on a purchase order and ship from the distributor to the customer. The issue is not selling it's my location at the time I can't sell it to a customer who comes to my home to take possession. I can receive a non-FFL item and hand deliver it if I choose just not firearms. The NYPD already sent me a proposal offer for body armor as I am a registered vendor in NYC.

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