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NYC Landlord Tells ATF Inspector No Firearms Allowed

4K views 26 replies 10 participants last post by  Cavalier Knight 
#1 ·
I currently reside within a DHCR regulated building in New York, NY. My apartment was originally occupied by my Grandmother then it went in succession to my Father and many years later to me. My Fathers military records from the Vietnam era are addressed here just to give you an idea of the amount of time my family has occupied the space.

Several years ago before I took over the lease the building was sold to a new owner. Although I did not reside here for the duration I moved in at a much later date which was still enough time to allow me to receive succession from my Father.

I have a standard front & back page DHCR lease with no additional provisions attached. My Fathers previous leases have zeros in that section of his old leases as well. I am currently in possession of the appropriate firearms permit(s) / license(s) from the NYPD to possess firearms. I recently applied for a FFL01 & C&R from the ATF.

The property owner did not state that I could not legally conduct my business but he told the investigator that "I am not allowed to possess firearms in my premises" although there are no such provisions in my lease. Being a renewal lease I was not given any attachments stating that it was a provision in the "original" lease signed by my Grandmother at a time when in my opinion there would have been no reason to include such a provision.

I'm communicating with the NYC Council now to determine if my business complies with a professional office which is a permitted use. As I am an internet based business (no retail sales).

I want to challenge this as an illegal arbitrary & capricious statement that has no legal standing in regards to my first two year renewal lease contract which I signed that went into effect on 06.01.2009 as he did not include any such firearm restriction policy.

As per the NYPD Commanding Officer of the Licensing Division the landlord cannot prohibit me but I need that in writing.

Statement on the back of DHCR renewal lease. http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/Forms/Rent/rtp8.pdf

Before you complete and sign PART B and return this Renewal Lease Form, be sure to check that all lawful provisions and written agreements have been attached by the owner to this Form. Please read all attachments carefully. If such other lawful provisions appear, they are part of this lease renewal offer and renewal lease. If there are any lawful agreements between you and the owner, attached copies must be signed by both parties.
 
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#4 ·
Mr. Reynolds....I have visited you website (Cavalier Knight), kudos for running a nice looking company! I can't imagine the roadblocks you must encounter in trying to run a biz in NYC that specializes in this line of work. As for your topic, i wouldn't have a clue...good luck!
 
#5 ·
I'm pretty sure that contract or no contract the "Owner" of the property has the final say. I can't seem to find it right now, but when I do I'll post it for you...
 
#6 ·
I'm pretty sure that contract or no contract the "Owner" of the property has the final say. I can't seem to find it right now, but when I do I'll post it for you...
So what your saying is an owner can just violate any part of their lease they wish? Then what is the point of a lease?
 
#7 ·
In order to obtain a FFL you need a place of business and a business license, Almost every incorporated town or city has zoning regulations. Some types of home occupations are permitted by most local zoning regulations. These types of businesses might include specific types of professional home office such as architect, engineer or accountant. Often there will be a stipulation that the professional office cannot have more than one employee. There may also be a list of prohibited types of home business.

You will need to study the NYC zoning code first to make certain that a home occupation can be used for retail firearms sales. You mentioned Internet sales. Some cities actually regulate what types of Internet business can be conducted from a home based business.

It is not at all unusual for a retail storefront to be zoned for a firearms business but the landlord will not allow that type of business.

ATF does not regulate where you operate your firearms business from, only that it is in conformance with all local codes regulations and ordnances.

The landlord may not have the right to deny you from keeping a firearm(s) for personal use in your apartment but may be able to deny you from operating a home business of any type.

Apply for a small business license. State the nature of the business and the city should be able to tell you if it conforms. It is some times possible to obtain a license for a conditional use.

It would seem that you might also be able to talk to your landlord. Find out what his concerns are. He may be concerned about his liability. He may also be anti-firearm.
 
#8 ·
As per my lease agreement only provisions & agreements signed by myself and the property owner which were attached to my lease at the time of signing are valid. We signed no such provisions or agreements. The property owner is just an :reddy:. The Second Amendment Foundation is writing a letter to him requesting a copy of any signed agreements or a letter stating that no illegal firearms are allowed by all tenants not just me or face further legal action.

As far as the FFL01 i've contacted members of the Zoning board on the NYC Council requesting clarification of an internet based business but the ATF investigator stated that I could aquire a seperate office address. They're called Virtual Offices out here or shared office space so I did but I'm still waiting on the final word from the ATF.

You can view my attached lease regulations as well as my letters to ATF and the NYC Council.

[ATF Letter] [NYC Council]
 

Attachments

#13 ·
Running a business out of an apartment is usually a no no, unless a there is a specific stipulation allowing it. Also, I'm sure zoning laws will come into play. However considering the latest SCOTUS decision, I don't think your landlord can forbid you from excercising a constitutionally protected right. It's the business aspect that's hurting you. What does your lease say about running a business and what zoning laws apply?
 
#14 ·
My company is an LLC. I live in an apartment in Manhattan stocking is not an option as I don't have a physical store. As far as zoning it's explained within this letter. [LINK]

Like I stated I'm internet based all I do from home is paperwork zoning allows a home occupation professional office.

The ATF investigator called me today 08.16.2010 to arrange my on-site interview at my shared/virtual office location on 08.20.2010. If I missed any questions please resend.
 
#15 ·
My message to the Zoning Department.

Message 08.03.10:

Is it correct that the city zoning bans individuals with a tax payer number from having an internet based business from a residential home where products are sold on the internet but shipped directly from the manufacturer to the purchaser?

Response 08.17.10

Dear Mr. Reynolds:

An internet business, as you described in your e-mail message to the Department of City Planning, where orders are placed on-line and products are shipped directly from a manufacturer to a customer, is permitted as a home occupation, provided all other provisions relating to home occupations are complied with, as set forth in the definition of “home occupation’ in Section 12-10 of the New York City Zoning Resolution. The Department of City Planning does not make determinations regarding zoning conformance or compliance. Such determinations are made by the Department f Buildings located at 280 Broadway, New York, 10007. If you would like this information in letter form, please send a check in the amount of $110.00, made payable to the Department of City Planning, to, Zoning Division, Department of City Planning, 22 Reade Street, New York, 10007. A letter will be mailed to you within a week of receipt.

Director,
Zoning Division
Department of city Planning.

I will not be acquiring the letter :image035:
 
#16 ·
It appears that you won't have a problem with home occupation via Internet with NYC, I doubt that I would engage in any further conversation with the landlord regarding the business.

Do you have a Business License for NY? Do you need a Home Occupation Permit?

http://www.nys-permits.org/

If you have everything necessary from the City and State, I doubt that ATF will deny your FFL.

I think you are almost there. Good luck.
 
#17 ·
It appears that you won't have a problem with home occupation via Internet with NYC, I doubt that I would engage in any further conversation with the landlord regarding the business.

Do you have a Business License for NY? Do you need a Home Occupation Permit?

If you have everything necessary from the City and State, I doubt that ATF will deny your FFL.

I think you are almost there. Good luck.
  1. Do you have a Business License for NY? My company is a registered LLC.
  2. Do you need a Home Occupation Permit? No but I do have my DUNS & EIN numbers.
  3. The property owner is of no immediate concern.

They changed my FFL01 address back to my residence address and will be here at 10:00 AM on 08.20.10. They must really like me as two Industry Operations Investigators are coming one male one female.
 
#24 ·
So, if I have this right..... the landlord just told you he's vetoed your 2A rights since this is your "residence". He's not only saying your business, but YOU.

Well, the 2A lawsuits have occurred in DC, then Chicago.... which everyone knew they would. I guess NY and Calif are next in line.
 
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