Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

This is a discussion on Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't see the atraction of full autos. I've fired an M16A1, an M60, and an M2 and I just don't see the attraction. That ...

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Thread: Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I don't see the atraction of full autos. I've fired an M16A1, an M60, and an M2 and I just don't see the attraction. That said I'm all for them being available to any lawabiding gun owner (who can afford a belt fed weapon that runs on 5$ a round ammunition)

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  3. #17
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    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Full auto loses its appeal rather quickly. Its fun for a bit, and it fun to flip it over and surprise others on the range here and there but it just isn't worth all the excitement.

    Years ago, I would have argued all day that everyone should be allowed to own full auto weapons, the same as any other gun. Then, I worked on a range that allowed and rented full autos. Any mouth breather can walk in off the street and go out and blast away. It was an eye opener t say the least. There is no way I'd support a full declassification of full auto weapons knowing what I know now.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a selective fire weapon.
    That's the beauty of the 2A (and the other rights)....it's not a matter of NEED....it's a RIGHT.

    I see no reason someone should need a computer to exercise their 1A rights....

    I believe you in the minority of opinion here....
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    That's the beauty of the 2A (and the other rights)....it's not a matter of NEED....it's a RIGHT.

    I see no reason someone should need a computer to exercise their 1A rights....

    I believe you in the minority of opinion here....
    Ya'll are placing more emphasis on the RIGHT to own, rather than the decision to own. I've stated before, I do believe in the right to own. Its a right. I CHOOSE not to own. I cannot justify spending hundreds of dollars on a thrill that will soon wane. Soooo... MY reason not to own one is financial. I, personally, cannot come up with a good enough reason to own one.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Full auto loses its appeal rather quickly. Its fun for a bit, and it fun to flip it over and surprise others on the range here and there but it just isn't worth all the excitement.

    Years ago, I would have argued all day that everyone should be allowed to own full auto weapons, the same as any other gun. Then, I worked on a range that allowed and rented full autos. Any mouth breather can walk in off the street and go out and blast away. It was an eye opener t say the least. There is no way I'd support a full declassification of full auto weapons knowing what I know now.
    That is an eye opener for fact. I know what you mean actually. Been there.
    It's just the same as driving along side any "mouth breather" on the highway with a valid driver's license.
    Who's to say a step up in rights would be subject to further scrutiny? I still stand on the principles laid out in the 2nd amendment, and they are rather simple and clear. We go judging our fellow man, and we become those whom would make laws against the constitution. Arms are arms. According to the 2nd amendment....arms are arms and there's no differentiation as to what type of arms. You go messing with our nation's foundations and defining criteria of whom has the right and whom does not, and that leads back into tyranny and subjugation. Where do we actually want to be at this point in time?

  7. #21
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    Anyone who can legally own a firearm can get a full auto something if they can afford the cost and the tax. Should everyone have the right to own one, sure. Should everyone own one lord no. As I have stated before some people should not be allowed to carry a spork much less a firearm.
    Deafdave3 best thing going in full auto .22 is a 10-22 Ruger converted by John Norrell in Little Rock, Ark. Will only run you $5k or so for the .40 cents in parts when he has some, but they are a blast to shoot.
    Everyone should shoot something full auto one time in there life just to try it but along with that after the first mag you have to pay to feed it.
    I am fortunate that I can shoot a number of FA weapons daily, I am sitting here now with an AK propped in the corner and a PKM sitting on the floor, but it gets old after a bit and can easily eat up an ammo supply in an afternoon of shooting.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Anyone who can legally own a firearm can get a full auto something if they can afford the cost and the tax. Should everyone have the right to own one, sure. Should everyone own one lord no. As I have stated before some people should not be allowed to carry a spork much less a firearm.
    Deafdave3 best thing going in full auto .22 is a 10-22 Ruger converted by John Norrell in Little Rock, Ark. Will only run you $5k or so for the .40 cents in parts when he has some, but they are a blast to shoot.
    Everyone should shoot something full auto one time in there life just to try it but along with that after the first mag you have to pay to feed it.
    I am fortunate that I can shoot a number of FA weapons daily, I am sitting here now with an AK propped in the corner and a PKM sitting on the floor, but it gets old after a bit and can easily eat up an ammo supply in an afternoon of shooting.
    Ya'll are allowed to have AKs? I thought the gov't only issues M16 (unless you're not in Iraq right now, as your "Location" states). Honestly, I'm just confused. This is probably something I don't know about.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  9. #23
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    Yes I am in Iraq and yes I have AK's. I am a Private Military Contractor. Many companies issue Eastern Bloc weapons or weapons other than US issue to there employees who are authorized to carry them.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Yes I am in Iraq and yes I have AK's. I am a Private Military Contractor. Many companies issue Eastern Bloc weapons or weapons other than US issue to there employees who are authorized to carry them.
    Ahhh. Now I understand. Thanks for explaining.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  11. #25
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    Roger, not a problem.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Another fact is that many people have been brainwashed into thinking that no average Joe should own one.
    I'll challenge that and say that what you state here is not "a fact." I'll say that you just made that up, and typed it. Because anyone who talks about people "being brainwashed" and such is usually wrong, or engaging in hyperbole.

    Gun ownership can be like fundamentalist religion - there's always someone more devout than thou. The idea that "all people should have firearms" is trumped by "all people should have automatic firearms" is trumped by "all people should have mortars and RPGs" is trumped by "all people should have howitzers." And to this line of thinking, Mr Howitzer always wins, because anybody who thinks otherwise is just a gun-grabbing Brady Bunch communist, right?

    So. Another thread posted right now is an article about some gangbangers doing a drive by and wounding 10. Most likely, any reticence Average Joe has about making automatic weapons legal stems from his awareness that the problem isn't you, or me, but that carload of gangbangers.

    This tends to be a blind spot for 2A activists. So our current system, which does allow us citizens in good standing to own NFA weaponry, presents a hurdle high enough to discourage the wrong element from obtaining them. Nevertheless, I think the law is flawed and that there's nothing magical about the year 1986. The goal of the NRA and other advocacy organizations should be to expand the NFA framework to allow citizens in good standing to obtain a wider range of firearms if they are capable of handling them.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    That is an eye opener for fact. I know what you mean actually. Been there.
    It's just the same as driving along side any "mouth breather" on the highway with a valid driver's license.
    Who's to say a step up in rights would be subject to further scrutiny? I still stand on the principles laid out in the 2nd amendment, and they are rather simple and clear. We go judging our fellow man, and we become those whom would make laws against the constitution. Arms are arms. According to the 2nd amendment....arms are arms and there's no differentiation as to what type of arms. You go messing with our nation's foundations and defining criteria of whom has the right and whom does not, and that leads back into tyranny and subjugation. Where do we actually want to be at this point in time?
    I see your point, and agree to a point as well. I actually think a drivers license should be a lot harder to obtain than they are now. Not harder by red tape, but harder as in proving competence. Where do we draw the line on weapons? Should anyone be allowed to own a M60? How about hand grenades? An M-198? We can go all the way to nukes... the line needs drawn somewhere, doesnt it?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #28
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    The average Joe should be able to own anything. If they can restrict one class of firearms, they can restrict them all.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    The average Joe should be able to own anything. If they can restrict one class of firearms, they can restrict them all.
    Just remember, "they" in your sentence above is "we, and us." Society makes judgments. On the whole these judgments reflect some sort of center compromise. Between the purist view on 2A which is "anyone should be able to own anything," and "the confiscators," is reality. That reality is where our present laws tend to be--more or less-- depending on the state.

    In short, principle carries us only so far in a practical and real world. And at some level we all know that. We also all know the old saying, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

    +1 Shockwave for post # 26.

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I see your point, and agree to a point as well. I actually think a drivers license should be a lot harder to obtain than they are now. Not harder by red tape, but harder as in proving competence. Where do we draw the line on weapons? Should anyone be allowed to own a M60? How about hand grenades? An M-198? We can go all the way to nukes... the line needs drawn somewhere, doesnt it?
    The point of the Second Amendment is to give the Citizenry a real chance to defend themselves from government abuse. Nothing less than parity of arms is going to do that.

    At the time the constitution was written the average Militiaman was expected to be able to turn out w/ a full infantry load out. (IE suitable rifle , ammunition, bayonet (or sword) hatchet (or tomahawk) rucksack and rations). Artillery was generally owned in common by the comunity and crew served weapons were non existant.

    Going by that standard I'd say that a private citizen shiould be able to own anything on the TO&E for an 11B (or what ever thay call the Infantry now) . Anything crew served and up should be owned in common by the community. There are several states who have state militias I believe they should be allowed to own artillery and crew served weapons.

    And to clarify by state militia I mean a state sanctioned organization that can not be called up for federal duty under the control of the state govenor
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces

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