Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire. - Page 3

Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

This is a discussion on Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I agree with Hopyard. At the same time, I don't agree with all NFA limitations and requirements. What difference does it make if the machine ...

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Thread: Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

  1. #31
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    I agree with Hopyard. At the same time, I don't agree with all NFA limitations and requirements. What difference does it make if the machine gun was made after 1986. It should be transferable.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The point of the Second Amendment is to give the Citizenry a real chance to defend themselves from government abuse. Nothing less than parity of arms is going to do that.

    At the time the constitution was written the average Militiaman was expected to be able to turn out w/ a full infantry load out. (IE suitable rifle , ammunition, bayonet (or sword) hatchet (or tomahawk) rucksack and rations). Artillery was generally owned in common by the comunity and crew served weapons were non existant.

    Going by that standard I'd say that a private citizen shiould be able to own anything on the TO&E for an 11B (or what ever thay call the Infantry now) . Anything crew served and up should be owned in common by the community. There are several states who have state militias I believe they should be allowed to own artillery and crew served weapons.

    And to clarify by state militia I mean a state sanctioned organization that can not be called up for federal duty under the control of the state govenor
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces
    I agree with this in theory, but do you really think a militia will be able to defeat or even defend against a modern infantry company, let alone the support that they bring? One measly gun ship could wipe out a fat out of shape milita battalian in one swoop; never mind... I am starting to sound like a dungeons and dragons geek. LOL. Anyway, you can own pretty much anything in the typical infantrymans bag o tricks, with the exception of a select fire weapon. I say big deal. Its not a big deal to them either.

    I do not worry about taking on the US military at all. There are far far to many patriots in all ranks and branches of the military.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I've played with with other peoples FA stuff including a G18..., it's an expensive way to run through a crapload of ammo..fun....but pricey. Now I WANT the PSD in 6.8 in a BAD way, FA or SA...just need to go harvest some kidneys to pay for it.
    I can ALMOST understand the .govs issue with average joes having unrestricted access to full auto, I don't agree with it, but it almost makes sense. What I can't understand is why in the heck did they lump suppressors into the NFA act? You can get a factory Glock suppressor in South Africa along with the barrell for around 150.00 (I'm a FB friend of Rob Pincus, hes on his way back from South Africa). I want suppressed, full auto toys without the 15K price tag and the AFT enema that comes along with 'em.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I just think it would be fun to actually own something that I used in the military. It would be like, I get to keep all my knives, and clothes, uniforms, survival equipment, even holsters and gun parts, but NOT the actual M4 or other firearm.

    It is a shame.

    FA or NOT only criminals are going to use FA to kill people. OH wait they already do? ??? Really! Trust me ;-)

    Legit citizens do not nor would ever. So why take the FA away.

    And to those whom said FA is bleh after a little while, once again, I AM NOT YOU, these other people are NOT you. I am simply asking that you don't tell us it shouldnt be because of a lame excuse like it wouldnt be fun after a while. Come at us with something that has texture, common sense, proves a point, is valid, and holds weight in an arguement against before judging the world based on your inability to appreciate and enjoy FA.

    Now once again I would just love to own a little carbine like that because it would make me happier to know I have the freedom to legitly have it in my safe.

    ((AT THIS POINT, can a mod move to this 2a please) Apparently my intended direction went easily astray and I am probably gonna get some kind of infraction again.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  5. #35
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    ((AT THIS POINT, can a mod move to this 2a please) Apparently my intended direction went easily astray and I am probably gonna get some kind of infraction again
    Dont worry about the infraction. One never can tell which way a subject is going to turn. I'll move it for you.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post

    And to those whom said FA is bleh after a little while, once again, I AM NOT YOU, these other people are NOT you. I am simply asking that you don't tell us it shouldnt be because of a lame excuse like it wouldnt be fun after a while. Come at us with something that has texture, common sense, proves a point, is valid, and holds weight in an arguement against before judging the world based on your inability to appreciate and enjoy FA.
    .
    Nobody said that was a viable reason to not allow full auto. I was just saying it really isnt that big of a deal, no matter what side of the fence you sit on.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I agree with this in theory, but do you really think a militia will be able to defeat or even defend against a modern infantry company, let alone the support that they bring?
    How's that working out in Afghanistan?

    I do not worry about taking on the US military at all. There are far far to many patriots in all ranks and branches of the military.
    Now, but what about 100 years from now? The citizenry should always maintain parity w/ the standing army. As a side benefit this gives the standing army a trained pool of recruits to draw from in the event of a war

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    How's that working out in Afghanistan?
    Pretty good. Engage in any war, and there will be casualties. Compare the numbers of US casualties vs. militant vs. civilian; I'll bet a dollar the US military is the lowest or second lowest number.
    Politics and bad information are the hold up, the insurgents are an annoyance more than anything else.

    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #39
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    It'd work out better if they werent fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #40
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    As part of the unorganized militia here in Texas, if I ever need military type weapons the Governor with requisition them for me and issue them to me. And the taxpayers will feed them for me!
    If you want to "rock and roll" have at it. Full auto is fun, as long as someone else is buying the ammo!
    For me the allure wore off years (and $$$$) ago.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  11. #41
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It'd work out better if they werent fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.
    Fact remains we've been there for what 6 years? and you can't say that were definitively "winning" against a bunch of Goat Herders.

    I believe it would be almost impossible for the U.S. Military to win against the citizenry

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Fact remains we've been there for what 6 years? and you can't say that were definitively "winning" against a bunch of Goat Herders.

    I believe it would be almost impossible for the U.S. Military to win against the citizenry
    Actually it would only be a problem if they cared about collateral damage. If they were willing to adopt a scortched earth policy it would be a cake walk for them.

    The technology edge goes to the military. Their biggest problem would finding troops willing to carry out the orders.

    All they have to do is be willing to say, nuke S.F. and Oakland just to make a point. What ultimately would determine the outcome is who is willing to do that which the other side isn't. If you don't care about how the world or history views you, you can use whatever means are at your disposal.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    As part of the unorganized militia here in Texas, if I ever need military type weapons the Governor with requisition them for me and issue them to me. And the taxpayers will feed them for me!
    If you want to "rock and roll" have at it. Full auto is fun, as long as someone else is buying the ammo!
    For me the allure wore off years (and $$$$) ago.

    The allure of spending a lot of money also wore off. I shot over 500,000 rounds easy during my tenure in Naval SpecWar dept. However it is about the freedom to breathe and know that we have the freedom to cherish and hold value in the fact my safe has a few nice FA capable weapons.

    It is about freedom, not fancy hardware. A right not used is a right lost or something like that. Im sure that the right of having FA weapons was never used properly and look what happened. We have to have a discussion about why we cant own any and frankly losing the right, well...it sucks.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  14. #44
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    How did we get off subject and into the war? My bad. Thing is, one really doesn't need full auto to take the place of the well aimed first shot. This goes for a lot of things. As far as the Viet Nam conflict (war), and where the enemy comes out of nowhere 50-1.....I'd really like to be behind an M60. For the civilian here on holy ground? Well, diversity is a good thing. There may come a day when we have to defend ourselves and the homeland from the same kinds of swarms that caught so many in the jungles three decades ago. I'd much rather die in the homeland, and I'll be just fine without a grave. At what rate of fire I can take out the enemy is of little importance...the hit to miss ratio may become a factor. I cherish each and every one of my rounds spent. There's still nothing like having a full auto in the arsenal just in case the Chinese are crossing the creek and I'm the lone gunner.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a select fire weapon.
    I don't see where the 2nd Amendment states what type of weapon is allowed or disallowed.

    Too many people, such as yourself DeafDave3, are willing to give a little here and give a little there and sooner or later we have no rights left. Perhaps it would be more reasonable for you to not want a select fire weapon for yourself and not have one, but have other law-abiding people able to exercise their rights and choose to have one.

    Why must supposed 2nd Amendment supporters allow the anti's to take inch by inch and end in us having no rights? I don't understand it.

    Besides, Select Fire weapons are legal in many states for law-abiding people:

    http://opencarry.org/machinegun.html





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