Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

This is a discussion on Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am not sure what forum to put my thoughts in so ill do it in defensive rifles since it is a defensive rifle. I ...

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Thread: Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Dont argue but ... this is why we need 2a fully opened and select fire.

    I am not sure what forum to put my thoughts in so ill do it in defensive rifles since it is a defensive rifle.

    I would buy this TOMORROW if I could! PERIOD.

    In the 2a forum there have been arguments about why we need to have select fire rights restored and others argueing why it is nuts to have them ...

    Well its perfectly fine to restore them because with out restoration of such rights I cant purchase little beauties like this ....

    http://www.lwrci.com/p-111-psd.aspx

    And this is why I say the above (Cut n Paste)
    "Rate of Fire: Semi-Auto or Select Fire
    (LE/GOV Only) 600rpm"

    Who wants this in semi?? What is the point there would no fun at all.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    I am not sure what forum to put my thoughts in so ill do it in defensive rifles since it is a defensive rifle.

    I would buy this TOMORROW if I could! PERIOD.

    In the 2a forum there have been arguments about why we need to have select fire rights restored and others argueing why it is nuts to have them ...

    Well its perfectly fine to restore them because with out restoration of such rights I cant purchase little beauties like this ....

    http://www.lwrci.com/p-111-psd.aspx

    And this is why I say the above (Cut n Paste)
    "Rate of Fire: Semi-Auto or Select Fire
    (LE/GOV Only) 600rpm"

    Who wants this in semi?? What is the point there would no fun at all.
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a selective fire weapon.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a selective fire weapon.
    Possible true, but the choice should be the average citizen who can pass muster...OMOYMV
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    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    It would be fun. I went to a machine gun shoot and shot a full auto AK. It was fun, but i am a whole lot more accurate with my semi and only alittle slower. Not a must have in my opinion, better to have suppesors legal in wa first (to shoot, we can own them, but only as expensive paper weights!)
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    A 28" select-fire rifle, 6.1 lbs, 30rd magazine ... it would be a handful, on anything but short bursts. I've shot a number of the smaller rifles and have had a hard time controlling them. I am sure that much of that is simply training and practice, but still. My ability to group any reasonable number of rounds on target stinks. Haven't brought home a target for framing yet, let's just leave it at that.

    Oregon doesn't disallow such firearms to its citizens. If you can meet the NFA requirements, you're in. Of course, there's the little 1986 limitation on no new select-fire receivers being allowed to citizens in the USA, which kills it for anything new and (obviously) makes the price 15x what it should be.

    You're right, though. We do need the full 2A to blast the 1986 legislation out of the water, if for no other reason than to get such beasts into the hands of the average citizen. No more of this hokey can't-shoot-inside-city-limits crap, either. Yeah, that's what we need. Of course, if that were to happen then I'll start staying indoors on Saturday nights ...
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    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a selective fire weapon.
    The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46

    - James Madison

    That the people have a Right to mass and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."

    - George Mason

    While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny."

    - Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    - Thomas Jefferson, in letter to William S. Smith, 1787

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Thomas Jefferson Papers p. 334, 1950)

    I can't say it any better than that

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46

    - James Madison

    That the people have a Right to mass and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."

    - George Mason

    While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny."

    - Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    - Thomas Jefferson, in letter to William S. Smith, 1787

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Thomas Jefferson Papers p. 334, 1950)

    I can't say it any better than that
    Hey great followup answers however this was not intended to be a 2a discussion. I guess I made the thought come across wrong.

    Paraphrased original thought: If the 2a were restored and we were permitted I would definitely be buying this nice little auto just for fun and to add to my collection.

    There now its not 2a related and more just a "Cool little carbine" discussion.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    My opinion, but I see no reason for an average Joe to own a selective fire weapon.
    Maybe you are the average Joe you speak of then? Just guessing based on the comment.

    Nothing personal I just dont feel the same way you do.

    Im not. Im an American, an Individual, a Veteran, and a person who would love to own this cool little carbine.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    My opinion, but I see no reason for the average Joe not to own a selective fire weapon.

    FA guns are fun, but this isn't about fun.

    This is about restoring something that we never should have lost in the first place. The intent of the writers of the U.S. Constitution was that the citizens be as equally armed as any federal troops were. That would include the weapons that the troops used so that a balance was achievable.

    It's a fact that one of the reasons that we won the War of Independence was because in many cases our citizens and soldiers used better weapons than the British Troops were issued. Rather than go toe to toe with what at that time was the best military in the world, it was rifled weapons that were more accurate and had a longer usable range than the muskets used by the Brits that often tipped the favor to our side.

    Somewhere back in the days of Prohibition, it was feel good, knee jerk tactics that were passed by ignorant Politicians that started taxing the right to own full autos. At that time, they didn't think that they had the support to eliminate use of them outright, so they taxed them into oblivion. In 1934, the 200 dollar tax was equivalent to almost 3000 by todays standards, and although they didn't outright ban them, there were very few people that could even afford the tax to own them. It wasn't long that the states that regulated freedom like it was a privilege to be bestowed only upon the wealthy, simply banned the citizens of their state from owning them.

    Another fact is that many people have been brainwashed into thinking that no average Joe should own one. They have been duped into believing that the full auto weapons are capable of mass destruction and an end to all means. Its a lie. The great Hollywood shootout where a couple of thugs took illegally converted full auto weapons and shot the place up wouldn't have lasted more than a few minutes if the cops or even a citizen with an equal weapon engaged them. Instead, most of the cops brought pistols to a gun fight and lost. It was only when the SWAT boys showed up with equal or better weapons that the fight ended.

    If I can legally own a semi auto,then I ought to be legally able to own a Full Auto. To say that I don't "need" one not only is insulting to me, but it implies that your limitations are my limitations, and that is NOT the way a free man thinks. People say, full autos are dangerous. They are as dangerous as the semi auto is. Either one will kill you, and to say that a machine with two or three more moving parts in it is more dangerous to own is ridiculous.

    Something else that annoys the heck out me while I am thinking about it, and I see it alot on all of the gun forums. People that would fight to the death for the right to own arms, and turn around and say that no one needs a full-auto. They'll fight for the arms that they think are OK, but to heck with the rest. It was that mentality that allowed the Brady Bill to pass. The mentality was, as long as you don't mess with my stuff, I don't care about the rest. With a thought process like that, is it any wonder why this country is so screwed up?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    RKM
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    I'd love to have select fire on my AR. While I'd rarely use it at the range, it'd be cool to have.

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    While everyone here makes good and valid points, it does not change my opinion. But come on, people... my opinion is just that... an opinion. Its MY opinion and opinions are like a**holes; everyone's got them. Really, all this means is that I personally will never own a full auto. I just don't see the reason for it. However, I would never talk my father out of owning one, I will never talk my children out of owning one, and I will never vote against full auto. All I stated was an opinion about owning one. Will I pass up the opportunity to shoot one? Hell no! But I'll never own one.

    Wait. I take that back. If there's a full auto in .22, I will probably want one of those.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

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    A person can become licensed to own full auto. It is expensive and there's a lot of red tape. I know a guy locally pretty well that is so licensed and he has invited me to his farm to shoot them anytime provided I buy the ammo. I just haven't made it by his place yet, but a couple of my other co-workers have. I need to put that on my high priority list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Wait. I take that back. If there's a full auto in .22, I will probably want one of those.
    I believe someone makes a .22 Gatling gun

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    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    If money was no problem, I would be shooting a 1928 Thompson this week. The most fun I can have with my clothes on.

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    Wait. I take that back. If there's a full auto in .22, I will probably want one of those.
    I think they'd be popular because thats about all most people can afford to shoot anymore. The problem is that back in 84' there were precious few .22's because everyone concentrated on the bigger stuff.

    Now, only the police and military can get a new one due to the law.

    As for the Gatling Gun, I have seriously contemplated building one from scratch. They are still legal because they are manually operated. That would be a lot of fun to shoot.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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