NRA News For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds

NRA News For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds

This is a discussion on NRA News For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; NRA Challenges Constitutionality Of Federal Handgun Ban For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=6020...

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    NRA News For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds

    NRA Challenges Constitutionality Of Federal Handgun Ban For Law Abiding 18-20 Year-Olds

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=6020
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    I don't know if it'll fly, but I'm not oppossed to the NRA's stance on the issue.

    I have however often argued that the draft, drinking, and adulthood age should be higher. Personally I'm acceptable with say 25 y/o being the age of adulthood. If you're able to fight and die for your country you should be afforded all the rights of that country, such as buying a drink. The reason I selected 25 y/o as my age marker is just because I've witnessed a lot of really less than stellar thinking in young adults. That's not to say I haven't witnessed the same in those over the age of twenty-five.

    Biker

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Deleted this... I just summarized below.
    Last edited by tangoseal; September 11th, 2010 at 08:23 PM.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    I always believed that the age of voting should be 27 yo.
    Drinking should be, no age limit, alcohol problems in other countries with no age limit have hardly any problems compared to our society.
    Smoking at least 18
    Carry a handgun 21 unless you served in the military at 18+. Police officers should never be under the age of 24 if ask me, they do not have the same discipline training and weapons training that the armed forces issues to 18'teens+.

    It is also a fact of matter than 18 years do not make the same choices based on maturity, experience if any, and have not yet developed the sense of individual accountability. The military teaches this, although there still are a lot of idiots in the service.

    Just my opinion dont flame me.
    I'm not going to flame you.

    I like your idea about being at least 21 unless you have had military service at 18. While in the military, I think it would be safe to say that you are at least technically under some supervision. Even in the military, most do not get handgun training.

    All insurance companies feel there is substantially more risk for male drivers under 25 and why underwriters about double the cost of the policy for young drivers. It has been that way for 50 years or more. I have to feel that there is some parallel with the carry of a handgun.

    In Missouri, the minimum age to obtain a CCW endorsement is 23.
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    IMO...is one an adult at 18 or not? I'm not for special categories of people, military or not, ESPECIALLY when it comes to enumerated and God-given rights.

    This graduated *stuff is irritating.
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    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    IMO...is one an adult at 18 or not? I'm not for special categories of people, military or not, ESPECIALLY when it comes to enumerated and God-given rights.

    This graduated *stuff is irritating.
    Right on. 18 years old, you're an adult. Cut the crap as far as drinking, handguns, etc. If you're legally an adult, that's it. End of story.

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    Some of the most stupid people on earth are 18 year old soldiers and Marines. I don't buy any of that garbage that serving makes you more qualified for anything.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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    The way I see it, if at 18 you are considered an adult in the fact that they will charge you as an adult and convict you as an adult if you do something you're not supposed to, then by God, you should be able to Drink, Get a CCW/CHP, etc, vote, and everything else any adult can do. If you screw up, then it's on you. If they want the age at 21 or higher, then they should not try you as an adult unless you are 21 or higher, nor should they recruit you into the military unless you are 21 or higher.

    Sure, I went into the military when I was 18 right out of high school, but I did'nt raise a fuss about not being able to buy a beer, because I did not drink. Still don't drink much to this day.

    If they consider you an adult at 18 and let you serve our country in the military, then they should let you use that military ID to buy "a" beer. Look at it this way. If you're active duty and you get drunk and screw up...your CO is going to make an example out of you.
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    Restricting handguns from 18-20 year olds, just doesn't make any sense. They don't have any right to defend themselves with the best tools?

    This same age group can vote on gun issues, but not own them? Absurd, in my mind.

    Many people want to keep young folks from having handguns, until maybe their 18 year old daughter leaves home... Wouldn't you want her to be able to take care of herself?

    I was married at a young age, and started my family early in life. But I had no right to own and carry a handgun, so when problems arose and I had to have means to defend me and mine against dubious people; I found myself packing an SKS in my truck. I believe a handgun would've been a better tool, and a more discrete one, too. My wife, also being young, couldn't carry. I would've felt a lot better if she could have carried then, as she does now.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I just summarize all below for less eye sore.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Restricting handguns from 18-20 year olds, just doesn't make any sense. They don't have any right to defend themselves with the best tools?

    This same age group can vote on gun issues, but not own them? Absurd, in my mind.

    Many people want to keep young folks from having handguns, until maybe their 18 year old daughter leaves home... Wouldn't you want her to be able to take care of herself?

    I was married at a young age, and started my family early in life. But I had no right to own and carry a handgun, so when problems arose and I had to have means to defend me and mine against dubious people; I found myself packing an SKS in my truck. I believe a handgun would've been a better tool, and a more discrete one, too. My wife, also being young, couldn't carry. I would've felt a lot better if she could have carried then, as she does now.
    About voting... why 18? You know, there is no where in our constitution that states that Voting is a inalienable right. In fact in great study of our founders I have seen a pattern as to why the system was made as it used to be. Earlier in our history only Land owners could vote. Why? Because they had a stake in politics, they could lose and they could gain, and they knew the value of electing smart leaders, not politicians.

    Once that all changed and everyone had the illusion of the "RIGHT to Vote", we get Bushes and Obama's, Carters, and other extreme cases of political non leaders ruling our way of life and not leading the way designed by the founders. Last I checked the patriot act was about the most disgusting non patriot thing ever. What about healthcare deform? I didnt vote to live in a free country where I have to un-freely purchase mandated services.

    After all look at how 18 year olds vote. They vote on whatever the popular thing is on facebook that day, not on issues, and leaders, but rather on who looks coolest on myspace and VH1. BHO was a black dude. The first. There was no character check, no background investigation, no history analysis, no is this guy going to look out for our interest as free Americans, nope, just mass millions of 18 to 20 somethings voted because they wanted the first black dude to be pres. Not pulling a race card here.

    Your points are taken and noted. Definitely taken, However this leaves the conversation open to the following:

    If one argues that 18 should be the age to carry a handgun for self defense, why not a 16 year old? Why not a 12 year old? Whats the difference?
    If you tell me well 12 is just too young and 16 year olds are not mature enough then how is that any different than 21 or 25?
    You have to set a benchmark somewhere based on scientific observed proof that there HAS to be an age where maturity is fully developed in people.

    And I believe there are different benchmarks for different levels.

    27 voting - Old enough to have been let down, broken, hard times, financial difficulties, debt caught up to you, matured in religious views, have kids, lost a few jobs, wrecked a few cars. Seen a president or two wreck or rebuild economies, protect or destroy freedoms.

    No age - Smoking and drinking, old enough to know that alcohol and smoke kills you.

    20'ish - carry a pistol, old enough to have been an adult for a few years, probably know that your choices can either make you or break you. What are you going to choose when you brandish that sweet little 40 cal on someone who made you angry? I might go to jail? Could I go to prison, or worse yet be dead after this? I dont think 18 year olds have developed this sense of decision making. I was 18 21 25 27 at one point in my life too.

    The list can go on? Am I wrong? Share with me where and how. I wont write back and argue.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Right on. 18 years old, you're an adult. Cut the crap as far as drinking, handguns, etc. If you're legally an adult, that's it. End of story.
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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    About voting... why 18? You know, there is no where in our constitution that states that Voting is a inalienable right. In fact in great study of our founders I have seen a pattern as to why the system was made as it used to be. Earlier in our history only Land owners could vote. Why? Because they had a stake in politics, they could lose and they could gain, and they knew the value of electing smart leaders, not politicians.


    Your points are taken and noted. Definitely taken, However this leaves the conversation open to the following:

    If one argues that 18 should be the age to carry a handgun for self defense, why not a 16 year old? Why not a 12 year old? Whats the difference?
    If you tell me well 12 is just too young and 16 year olds are not mature enough then how is that any different than 21 or 25?
    You have to set a benchmark somewhere based on scientific observed proof that there HAS to be an age where maturity is fully developed in people.

    And I believe there are different benchmarks for different levels.

    27 voting - Old enough to have been let down, broken, hard times, financial difficulties, debt caught up to you, matured in religious views, have kids, lost a few jobs, wrecked a few cars. Seen a president or two wreck or rebuild economies, protect or destroy freedoms.

    No age - Smoking and drinking, old enough to know that alcohol and smoke kills you.

    20'ish - carry a pistol, old enough to have been an adult for a few years, probably know that your choices can either make you or break you. What are you going to choose when you brandish that sweet little 40 cal on someone who made you angry? I might go to jail? Could I go to prison, or worse yet be dead after this? I dont think 18 year olds have developed this sense of decision making. I was 18 21 25 27 at one point in my life too.

    The list can go on? Am I wrong? Share with me where and how. I wont write back and argue.
    You're not wrong. I just chose 18 because it seems to be the average age that most people consider adulthood.

    Regarding voting; honestly, I don't know when 18 became the legal age. Yes, it used to be that you had to be a landowner to vote. Another topic, though.

    People are so varied at various ages, it's impossible to lay down one specific age that a person is responsible. If were going to have an age of maturity, it ought to include all the rights and responsibilities of adulthood. Whether it's 18 or 25. But, no matter what the age is, we're still going to have irresponsible people. We'll never get away from that.

    Why couldn't people under 18 carry and own handguns, if a parent or guardian could vouch for them? We let 16 year olds drive cars; that's very dangerous, in it's own way.

    It just seems like a lack of reckoning. At 18 one can buy an AK-47, AR-15 or a Saiga semi-automatic shotgun, but not a .22 Buckmark. Not even an anemic .380 or .25ACP.

    Again, once it is decided what the age of adulthood is, then let all things apply. Until then, perhaps it should be left up to their parent/guardian for such things.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Again, once it is decided what the age of adulthood is, then let all things apply. Until then, perhaps it should be left up to their parent/guardian for such things.
    That is a good point too. You know, letting parents decide what is best for children, not the bloated fat overpowered govt.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    i would disagree with the 21 unless you're 18 with military service idea. this is what i've personally seen with a lot of 18-21. keep in mind this is in the air force (not army or marines, which i'm sure is WAY different). most people don't take the m16 training serious. they even say things like "why should have to take this class, i'm never gonna need this, i'm in the air force, i joined the air force not the army, i didn't join to kill people." so no one really takes it serious. i see people fall asleep in the class. and when we actually go to shoo and they get jams they look at it like its gonna fix itself. they start pointing it all over the place. they stand up point it straight down and shake it like that's gonna fix it. somoene had a negligent discharge. bolt wasn't fully seated, dude stood up shook it with his finger on the trigger. the bolt seated and bullet went into the ground, 2 inches from the instructors foot. i see on occasion in deployed locations, people carrying their 16's with their finger on the trigger. i've been to the class 6 times in the last 7 years. i stopped counting the people that have been there more often then me who still can't figure it out. its quite frightening actually. i've submitted a critique on the class a few times requesting they add a written test.. but it hasn't happened yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Why couldn't people under 18 carry and own handguns, if a parent or guardian could vouch for them? We let 16 year olds drive cars; that's very dangerous, in it's own way.
    because you get those parents of teen criminals who've been shot in self defense say things like "my baby would never hurt someone. he didn't deserve to die. he's a victim of society. he didn't do nothing wrong. he was the one trying to defend himself." and thats even with video proof of their son robbing or assaulting someone. those are the parents that are so dilluted by the love for their own child that they think their child is a perfect little innocent angel. and they'd go buy their kid a gun if he asked for it. not to say it would be some huge epidemic. but there are many teens who commit and get away with multiple crimes before they're caught. no sense in giving them a gun to use it during those crimes. however usually if you're gonna be comitting crimes, you start before you hit 18. if you're 18, still in school, going to college even, getting decent grades, its very unlikely you're gonna resort to being a criminal. but that could be a potential problem for those kids whos parents think they're perfect little angels.

    don't get me wrong here folks, i'm all for the parents doing some teaching of their kids. but we all know it just doesn't happen sometimes. kids are becoming more and more lazy thus, turning into lazier and lazier parents. they want the gov't to do everything for them. granted there are still a vast amount of people like us who take personal responsibility.

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