NYS Pistol License Suspension - Final Chapter

NYS Pistol License Suspension - Final Chapter

This is a discussion on NYS Pistol License Suspension - Final Chapter within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well after a 21 month suspension my pistol license "privileges" have been restored and firearms returned. For those interested in reading about some of the ...

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Thread: NYS Pistol License Suspension - Final Chapter

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    NYS Pistol License Suspension - Final Chapter

    Well after a 21 month suspension my pistol license "privileges" have been restored and firearms returned. For those interested in reading about some of the background of the suspension you can read the details on the following thread (the original 1st part tread started in February of 2009 was deleted):

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...Two&highlight=

    While I'm happy to get my license and pistols back there is very much a sense of dissatisfaction in that nothing positive has occurred with respect to changing the law and power exercised by the licensing authority in NYS. My license was restored simply because my daughter and grandkids moved to their own place. The idea still holds sway that "allegations" related to a minor child or grandchild, where no act of violence or use of a weapon occurred, can be used to nullify the 2nd Amendment rights of a law abiding adult citizen living in the same household.

    One of the stipulations for continuing to exercise my license "privileges" is that my grandson is barred from residing with me in the future in spite of the fact that it has been three years since the "evidence" of his gang affiliation was uncovered (pictures of him when he was 15 years old with a group of other minors in gang colors and throwing up gang signs), he has completed nearly two years of educational/vocational training with zero law enforcement contact, and the PD gang unit has no record of any gang involvement by him over the last 2+ years.

    I recently went to an open house at his school and every teacher I spoke with repeat the refrain that he is a very well mannered, respectful young man. All of this was document and yet somehow the powers that be still view him as enough of a threat to public safety that my 2nd Amendment rights are in jeopardy should he for some reason come to live with me in the future.

    During the conversation I had with the officer at pistol licensing who called to inform me that the suspension was being lift a comment was made that the presence of my grandson in my house was a liability issue for the licensing authority. In the mind of the powers that be each license they issue represents a liability to them should an individual they license use a firearm recklessly.

    To a certain extend I understand that sentiment but if you extend that reasoning to other aspects of living it allows for the government to control just about every aspect of our lives. If the government allowing an activity means the government is liable for any negative results of the irresponsible action on the part of a citizen that opens the door for the government to exercise control over individual actions.

    On the other hand the Constitutional enumeration of the powers of the government actually serves to limit the liability of the government with respect to the exercise of rights and freedoms on the part of citizens. Enumerated powers and individual freedom puts the liability for the abuse of that freedom on the citizen rather then the government. Unfortunately the situation in our society has turn this concept upside down.

    Anyway, I wanted to share the conclusion of my tale of woe with those that had read and commented on the initial threads. As mentioned earlier, I've got mixed emotions and I am really hoping that the lawsuits currently in the system, especially the Westchester county lawsuit being handled by Alan Gura, will make some headway in restoring the 2nd Amendment rights that have been stripped from American citizens living in much of NYS. Our 2nd Amendment rights are fundamental and should require strict scrutiny and some overwhelming public safety interest in order to justify limiting the exercise of these rights on the part of law abiding citizens.
    CountryGal likes this.
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    I didn't know about your story until I saw this post. Sorry to hear about it. I think I would move out of NYS. There are several places in this country that I absolutely will not live, and NYS is one of them. They don't respect your rights.
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    Glad to hear you finally got your license and guns back. It still sucks that is conditional on your grandson not "residing" in your home.
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I'm very glad to hear you got your guns back from the bureaucracy...go buy a lottery ticket...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2edgesword View Post
    ...a comment was made that the presence of my grandson in my house was a liability issue for the licensing authority. In the mind of the powers that be each license they issue represents a liability to them should an individual they license use a firearm recklessly.
    This is what I find most idiotic...How do they think THEY can be held liable? I have yet to see anyone from any gov't agency held accountable for anything they do (wrong). I probably would have laughed in their face...unfortunately, the bureaucracy and the citizenry believes rights can be doled out or restricted by the gov't at their whim.
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    Glad you were able to get your suspension lifted and your guns back.

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I'm very glad to hear you got your guns back from the bureaucracy...go buy a lottery ticket...

    This is what I find most idiotic...How do they think THEY can be held liable? I have yet to see anyone from any gov't agency held accountable for anything they do (wrong). I probably would have laughed in their face...unfortunately, the bureaucracy and the citizenry believes rights can be doled out or restricted by the gov't at their whim.
    I think they believe their liability comes in the forum of the licensing authority being blamed (sued) for the negative results of irresponsible actions by the licensee or in my case someone living with the licensee. The argument would be that somehow the licensing authority should have foreseen this danger ahead of time and not issued the license or suspended/revoked the license. In spite of all the precautions I take to secure my firearms (locked doors, alarms, locked boxes bolted to the floor, etc.), precautions communicated to the licensing authority, their justification for suspending the license was their view of their liability if somehow, someway my grandson would have gotten hold of one of my firearms and used it to injury someone. Now while I don't have deep pockets the county I live in does and I have don't doubt that there are lawyers that would take a case suing the county for not having taken proactive action (suspending my license) to prevent the injury from occurring as remote as the chances were that it would have happened. They (the licensing authority) were covering their rear to the extreme.

    Of course the problem with the above rationale is that there is no limit to where "the powers that be" can take it in justifying the infringement on the rights of citizens. Regardless of how remote the possibility is for a certain set of circumstance to come together to end up in a negative result, if the government has a hand in licensing, permitting or allowing an activity (what activity are citizens involved in that doesn't come under that umbrella) they can claim they are exposed to some potential liability and use that exposure as justification for strictly limiting that activity and who can participate in it.

    Unfortunately we are very far down the slippery slope since the government has a hand in everything from the food you eat to the pillow you lay your head on at night.
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    That is what I find ludicrous...that the State(NY) thinks they have the power to "grant" rights, versus everyone is free to make good and bad decisions, and suffer the consequences of bad decisions. I still don't understand how they think they can be sued and held accountable for someone elses decision to commit a crime. But then again, in NY, it's all about people control, not crime control.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I remember reading about your ordeal.
    I didn't like the intrusion of the government "powers that be" on your life then, and I like it less even now.

    While I am happy for you, that you got your guns back, I am saddened that removing them from your home, and your ability to posses them, was nullified by the potential actions of a third party. Not to turn this in to a political thread, but your ordeal is what happens when people allow the government to run rampant over the people they are supposed to represent. Good luck in keeping your guns, as I have a feeling you're going to need it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    That is what I find ludicrous...that the State(NY) thinks they have the power to "grant" rights, versus everyone is free to make good and bad decisions, and suffer the consequences of bad decisions. I still don't understand how they think they can be sued and held accountable for someone elses decision to commit a crime. But then again, in NY, it's all about people control, not crime control.
    Keep in mind this isn't necessarily the state, it's his local county. The state permits are issued at a county level and every county in the state seems to do it's own thing with their own licensing officers. Had he lived in an upstate county this may have been a non-issue. There is legislation to make the state shall issue and take power away from the licensing authorities but it never saw the light of day last session. Maybe next year, but don't hold your breath.

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    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I remember reading about your ordeal.
    I didn't like the intrusion of the government "powers that be" on your life then, and I like it less even now.

    While I am happy for you, that you got your guns back, I am saddened that removing them from your home, and your ability to posses them, was nullified by the potential actions of a third party. Not to turn this in to a political thread, but your ordeal is what happens when people allow the government to run rampant over the people they are supposed to represent. Good luck in keeping your guns, as I have a feeling you're going to need it.

    Biker
    I think Biker nailed it. I also remember reading about this, & the shock and disgust I had back then at this whole ordeal.
    I'm glad it's finally over, and you got your property back.
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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    Keep in mind this isn't necessarily the state, it's his local county. The state permits are issued at a county level and every county in the state seems to do it's own thing with their own licensing officers. Had he lived in an upstate county this may have been a non-issue. There is legislation to make the state shall issue and take power away from the licensing authorities but it never saw the light of day last session. Maybe next year, but don't hold your breath.
    fastk9dad

    True to a certain extent. While some of the upstate counties issue unrestricted license state law allows the individual licensing authorities to apply whatever restrictions they deem appropriate.
    Last edited by 2edgesword; November 7th, 2010 at 08:05 PM.
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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Thanks for the well wishes folks. The moral support and the knowledge I've gain in part via this forum, about what the 2nd Amendment is suppose to mean even in NYS, has helped keep me going. Unfortunately too many citizens and public officials in this state have a very warped understanding of what constitutes the 2nd Amendment rights of United States citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    That is what I find ludicrous...that the State(NY) thinks they have the power to "grant" rights, versus everyone is free to make good and bad decisions, and suffer the consequences of bad decisions. I still don't understand how they think they can be sued and held accountable for someone elses decision to commit a crime. But then again, in NY, it's all about people control, not crime control.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    If you get some nincompoop in bueracracy, with the slightest notion of control wit a social agenda, and some idiotic hare-brained idea they picked up in college, they will do just that.



    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    Keep in mind this isn't necessarily the state, it's his local county. The state permits are issued at a county level and every county in the state seems to do it's own thing with their own licensing officers. Had he lived in an upstate county this may have been a non-issue. There is legislation to make the state shall issue and take power away from the licensing authorities but it never saw the light of day last session. Maybe next year, but don't hold your breath.

    ^^^^In bold^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Speaks volumes about why Michigan took control AWAY at the local and county .


    Glad its hopefully behind you now.
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    Member Array faif2d's Avatar
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    I remember the original story and being sickened at the thought that you could be disarmed the way you were. Retire and move to Texas it is gun friendly.

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