Constitution gets congressional reading!

This is a discussion on Constitution gets congressional reading! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ksholder Hopyard - you are right, it is tricky. Let me clarify my position a bit better as I was not totally ...

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Thread: Constitution gets congressional reading!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hopyard - you are right, it is tricky. Let me clarify my position a bit better as I was not totally clear. If you are earning money from the government (employee, contractor, supplier, etc.) that would not count against you. If, however, you are receiving funds that were not earned (welfare, farm subsidies [controversial I know], getting more back than you put into the taxation system as mlr1m noted, other government gimmies that are not a result of labor), you are disenfranchised. Otherwise it is like letting the inmates run the prison.
    OK, we'll disenfranchise the folks who work for ethanol producers? The industry wouldn't exist without subsidies.

    As I said, it is sometimes hard to tell parasite from host from commensal.

    You are talking about wanting to take the vote from poor people solely because they are poor. The strategy been tried before in the form of a poll tax and found wanting.

    As for the other "originalist' ideals you speak of, how about we go back to having senators elected by legislatures or appointed by governors as originally intended; I could get talked into that idea. Do you really want electors selected by legislators instead of by popular vote? Again, I could get talked into that idea, if only because what we are doing now ain't working well.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    Sounds good on papaer, problem is, that paper is going to have $3.7 billion in earmarks and pork fat attached to it before they sign off on it. But we can hope for the best, right?
    Nah, they are already backtracking on their promise to cut 100 billion from the budget. Latest talk is somewhere around 30 billion, and that is iffy. See, one man's essential spending is another man's complete waste.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Barbary's Avatar
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    Reading it is one thing, governing and being governed by it is another. Here's hoping they take it to heart.

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    The reading goes with the new House rule that requires all new legislation to cite the specific constitutional basis allowing congress to pass the law. Perhaps a debate on how a law is constitutional before it pasees is better than leaving it up to the courts to hopefully fix it years later. Hope springs eternal...

    As an aside, there is a Constitution app for the iPhone, along with a Declaration of Independence app.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapnketel View Post
    The reading goes with the new House rule that requires all new legislation to cite the specific constitutional basis allowing congress to pass the law. Perhaps a debate on how a law is constitutional before it pasees is better than leaving it up to the courts to hopefully fix it years later. Hope springs eternal...

    As an aside, there is a Constitution app for the iPhone, along with a Declaration of Independence app.
    Debates over the constitutionality of legislation have gone on in House and Senate committees forever, and the issue is dealt with during pre-legislative hearings, and if necessary at debate on the floor. You (meaning all who read here) do realize that there is UNLIMITED debate in The Senate and if any Senator feels a proposed law is unconstitutional he is quite free to speak to that issue--forever, unless 60 people vote to cut him off.

    In short, while we here sit comfortably in our rooms typing this stuff, the constitutionality (and lots of other issues of complexity) is always dealt with during law making. Sometimes they get it wrong in the opinion of one court or another; often they get it wrong in the opinion of a block of voters. But, the idea that our constitution is simply ignored by our Federal legislators is ludicrous. Bills need to get approved by various committees before they even get out to the floor for a vote. If there is a constitutional issue, it will generally get debated. And, Congress does have a certain right/obligation to interpret the constitution while making legislation, to avoid passing unconstitutional laws.

    The idea that we here sitting at our computers know it (constitution) better than the Congressional staff, staff attorneys, aides, and the Critters themselves seems pretty naive. And is certainly naive when we are talking about the more senior and experienced members.

    The big problems of course come in when there are legitimate and often not so legitimate manufactured controversies over meaning and interpretation which are used for political purposes and maneuvering for political posture and gain.

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Lets give Boehner some credit. He is not choice but he is doing something that even Reagan didnt do except they dont even compare obviously :P
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    May be theater but if they can remind themselves that they operate on limited powers and were installed by the people...who knows. It does call out the wolves who oppose the reading...New Your Times, Left leaners. Theater that may set the stage for 2012 elections.
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    While it may be "theater" it sure beats the liberal drama of walking all over the document being read.

    Perhaps reading the Constitution can serve as a reminder that there are ideals that need to be upheld and there are things greater than ourselves.

    Biker
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerby View Post
    I am 100% behind the effort to stand by the constitution; if the tea party / rep party are as well (as they claim) we should expect a repeal of the patriot act soon; as it was by far the most egregious attack on the constitution ever. Patrick Hennery never said “take some of my liberty to keep me safe”
    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    Think so? I believe it’s time to face the piper with open eyes in order to right many wrongs. Some may well perceive the reading as adolescent, but I think it may help reaffirm the values of a lost generation, where responsibility and promises actually meant something.
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    It may be just theater but I like they way they are acting.



    Agreed. IMO, it's not so much theater as it is a message to the left, as well as to the people.

    The message you get from it kinda defines just what side you're on i.e. Left, or Right.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    Lets give Boehner some credit. He is not choice but he is doing something that even Reagan didnt do except they dont even compare obviously :P
    I like the guy myself, but I just wish he'd stop crying all the dang time.... IMO, he opens himself and his message up for cheap shots by the left.
    I admire where he came from and how he got to where he is now, but the left will use his emotions to muddy the water and twist what ever they can to their advantage if at all possible.

    When Nancy pooh pooh gave him the new and improved Gavel, I'd have rather seen him rap her on the noggin with it after her comment on its size.... Not to hurt her of course, but enough for her to see a a star or two.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #39
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    posted by Hopyard:
    The idea that we here sitting at our computers know it (constitution) better than the Congressional staff, staff attorneys, aides, and the Critters themselves seems pretty naive. And is certainly naive when we are talking about the more senior and experienced members.
    That comment speaks to me of arrogance and elitism. That is exactly what I voted against. The idea that a congresscritter could know better than I what I need is insulting.

    Biker

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    That comment speaks to me of arrogance and elitism. That is exactly what I voted against. The idea that a congresscritter could know better than I what I need is insulting.

    Biker
    Reality Mr. Biker.

  12. #41
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    So, did this stunt include reading the first ten amendments? Perhaps, oh, I don't know, focusing on the SECOND amendment? Cuz that would be great. The reps from Illinois would have to stunned to learn there is such a thing.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Reality Mr. Biker.
    I'm not Mr. Biker but I do know that congressmen and women were once average everyday people, next door neighbors and friends with a probable above average intelligence. People with above average intelligence are still here who are not affiliated to the government. Where do you think the new batch came from? I see the longer they sit in congress, the more time they get in learning how to help themselves. Look at the income of a Freshman congressman vs a twenty year man. Lets all get smart. Term limits. I'm sure Mr. Biker knows this too. I apologize BikeRN. You don't need me to defend you, I just couldn't help myself as the statement speaks to us all with half a brain.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    I'm not Mr. Biker but I do know that congressmen and women were once average everyday people, next door neighbors and friends with a probable above average intelligence. People with above average intelligence are still here who are not affiliated to the government. Where do you think the new batch came from? I see the longer they sit in congress, the more time they get in learning how to help themselves. Look at the income of a Freshman congressman vs a twenty year man. Lets all get smart. Term limits. I'm sure Mr. Biker knows this too. I apologize BikeRN. You don't need me to defend you, I just couldn't help myself as the statement speaks to us all with half a brain.
    I think we were discussing whether or not Critters know what is in our constitution, not the makeup and economic heritage of the folks who serve in Congress.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Reality Mr. Biker.
    Reality is, that the arrogance of that comment displays an example of what is wrong with Washington. You have, according to your various post, a number of years in federal service. That undoubtably has left you with a touch of federal arrogance towards the people you serve.

    Biker

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    I'm not Mr. Biker but I do know that congressmen and women were once average everyday people, next door neighbors and friends with a probable above average intelligence. People with above average intelligence are still here who are not affiliated to the government. Where do you think the new batch came from? I see the longer they sit in congress, the more time they get in learning how to help themselves. Look at the income of a Freshman congressman vs a twenty year man. Lets all get smart. Term limits. I'm sure Mr. Biker knows this too. I apologize BikeRN. You don't need me to defend you, I just couldn't help myself as the statement speaks to us all with half a brain.
    No need to apologize, and thank you.

    Biker

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