New knee-jerk legislation resulting from the AZ shooting (MERGED)

This is a discussion on New knee-jerk legislation resulting from the AZ shooting (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by hamlet The law as present is not thrown out by the Supreme C. - except DC's. The rest are n't undecided Constitutionally ...

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Thread: New knee-jerk legislation resulting from the AZ shooting (MERGED)

  1. #181
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    The law as present is not thrown out by the Supreme C. - except DC's. The rest aren't undecided Constitutionally - they are unchallenged in their Constitutional status. We have a very definite "hint", though, what would need to be shown for a future case to be considered a Constitutional issue to begin with: because the Decision states that restrictions are not inherently against the 2nd Amendment just because they are a restriction: "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited and it's limits have yet to be fully defined (or, if you like so far)".

    I can't prove it because it's theoretical, but what Razorback just pointed to is very likely true of Mag capacity, it's a possible Legislative issue, not at all likely a Constitutional one - (unless the limit was at 1 or 2 rounds). At present Arizona's law which, I take it, doesn't restrict mag-capacity is Constitutional, and so is New York's and other areas' present limit to 10. Changes if any will be by the legislature through community pressure by the majority. This thread has lately been concentrating on the Constitution, because some have claimed limit violates the 2nd and that's the end of it.
    Fixed that first part for you.

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  3. #182
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Fixed that first part for you.
    If it makes you feel better to think of them as undefined you will. But then the same is true of all laws in the country not having gone up to the Supreme Court - about anything.
    In the world of the actual, a law defines - the rest is imagination.

  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Fixed that first part for you.
    I'm not so sure it is right to say they are "unchallenged in their constitutional status." Probably every criminal defendant accused of a gun law violation has raised these issues somewhere in their defense, many such have got to circuit courts and so on. So probably most gun laws have indeed been tested at least as far as a state appeals court where the states have a constitutional provision on carry; and into the circuit courts when rebuffed by the states.

    The other thing written, "and it's limits have yet to be fully defined " is also maybe not quite on. NYC still has its highly restrictive laws, IL and DC still have their highly restrictive laws. These have never been struck. That pretty much tell us all we need to know about where the Supremes come down--- they have been unwilling to open the pandora's box of an unfettered right to carry without any licensing or regulation. OTOH, they don't interfere with states which choose to allow such. There is something for everybody in the wishy washy.

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    The SCOTUS refuses to hear a lot of cases because they are too broadly defined. Your "every criminal defendant accused of a gun law violation" statement is probably true, but I doubt any of them were up to muster for a SC case. There were lots of Hellers before Heller, and lots of McDonalds before McDonald. Now that the door has been opened, I think we'll see more of these things come up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    The SCOTUS refuses to hear a lot of cases because they are too broadly defined. Your "every criminal defendant accused of a gun law violation" statement is probably true, but I doubt any of them were up to muster for a SC case. There were lots of Hellers before Heller, and lots of McDonalds before McDonald. Now that the door has been opened, I think we'll see more of these things come up.
    I would like very much to agree with you, but it is hard for me to do so in an optimistic way after today's refusal to hear the appeal of the guy who got caught at Newark Airport. The Supremes may be conservative, and they may be a tad more favorable to gun owners and gun rights than previous justices were, but only a tad, and not by much.

  7. #186
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I would like very much to agree with you, but it is hard for me to do so in an optimistic way after today's refusal to hear the appeal of the guy who got caught at Newark Airport. The Supremes may be conservative, and they may be a tad more favorable to gun owners and gun rights than previous justices were, but only a tad, and not by much.
    Well, whaddya know. . . something we agree on in this thread, lol.


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