Another in NY Times: "Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?"

This is a discussion on Another in NY Times: "Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?" within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/op...T+Ix8W7a1Q3f9w Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys? By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF Jared Loughner was considered too mentally unstable to attend community college. He ...

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Thread: Another in NY Times: "Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?"

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Another in NY Times: "Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/op...T+Ix8W7a1Q3f9w

    Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?

    By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

    Jared Loughner was considered too mentally unstable to attend community college. He was rejected by the Army. Yet buy a Glock handgun and a 33-round magazine? No problem.

    To protect the public, we regulate cars and toys, medicines and mutual funds. So, simply as a public health matter, shouldn’t we take steps to reduce the toll from our domestic arms industry?

    Look, I’m an Oregon farm boy who was given a .22 rifle for my 12th birthday. I still shoot occasionally when visiting the family farm, and I understand one appeal of guns: they’re fun.

    It’s also true that city slickers sometimes exaggerate the risk of any one gun.
    The authors of Freakonomics noted that a home with a swimming pool is considerably more dangerous for small children than a home with a gun. They said that 1 child drowns annually for every 11,000 residential pools, but 1 child is shot dead for every 1 million-plus guns.

    All that said, guns are far more deadly in America, not least because there are so many of them. There are about 85 guns per 100 people in the United States, and we are particularly awash in handguns.

    (The only country I’ve seen that is more armed than America is Yemen. Near the town of Sadah, I dropped by a gun market where I was offered grenade launchers, machine guns, antitank mines, and even an anti-aircraft weapon. Yep, an N.R.A. dream! No pesky regulators. Just terrorism and a minor civil war.)

    Just since the killings in Tucson, another 320 or so Americans have been killed by guns — anonymously, with barely a whisker of attention. By tomorrow it’ll be 400 deaths. Every day, about 80 people die from guns, and several times as many are injured.

    Handgun sales in Arizona soared by 60 percent on Monday, according to Bloomberg News, as buyers sought to beat any beefing up of gun laws. People also often buy guns in hopes of being safer. But the evidence is overwhelming that firearms actually endanger those who own them. One scholar, John Lott Jr., published a book suggesting that more guns lead to less crime, but many studies have now debunked that finding (although it’s also true that a boom in concealed weapons didn’t lead to the bloodbath that liberals had forecast).

    A careful article forthcoming in the American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine by David Hemenway, a Harvard professor who wrote a brilliant book a few years ago reframing the gun debate as a public health challenge, makes clear that a gun in the home makes you much more likely to be shot — by accident, by suicide or by homicide.

    The chances that a gun will be used to deter a home invasion are unbelievably remote, and dialing 911 is more effective in reducing injury than brandishing a weapon, the journal article says. But it adds that American children are 11 times more likely to die in a gun accident than in other developed countries, because of the prevalence of guns.

    Likewise, suicide rates are higher in states with more guns, simply because there are more gun suicides. Other kinds of suicide rates are no higher. And because most homicides in the home are by family members or acquaintances — not by an intruder — the presence of a gun in the home increases the risk of a gun murder in that home.

    So what can be done? I asked Professor Hemenway how he would oversee a public health approach to reducing gun deaths and injuries. He suggested:

    • Limit gun purchases to one per month per person, to reduce gun trafficking. And just as the government has cracked down on retailers who sell cigarettes to minors, get tough on gun dealers who sell to traffickers.
    • Push for more gun safes, and make serial numbers harder to erase.
    • Improve background checks and follow Canada in requiring a 28-day waiting period to buy a handgun. And ban oversize magazines, such as the 33-bullet magazine allegedly used in Tucson. If the shooter had had to reload after firing 10 bullets, he might have been tackled earlier. And invest in new technologies such as “smart guns,” which can be fired only when near a separate wristband or after a fingerprint scan.

    We can also learn from Australia, which in 1996 banned assault weapons and began buying back 650,000 of them. The impact is controversial and has sometimes been distorted. But the Journal of Public Health Policy notes that after the ban, the firearm suicide rate dropped by half in Australia over the next seven years, and the firearm homicide rate was almost halved.

    Congress on Wednesday echoed with speeches honoring those shot in Tucson. That’s great — but hollow. The best memorial would be to regulate firearms every bit as seriously as we regulate automobiles or toys.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Member Array dylistn's Avatar
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    "Why Not Regulate Guns as Seriously as Toys?"

    When I buy agun here in TN:
    I fill out a form
    The FFL holder calls a TBI number
    TBI does an instant background check
    An approval number if added to my form.
    The FFL holder keeps a record of the transaction

    If I want to buy my grandson a toy car, I just pick it off the shelf and pay for it, along with the carrots and onions!

    New York is pretty skrewed up but have they reversed this? That would explain alot!

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    Those in Public Health are all very liberal and advocate government regulation of many aspects of our life "for our own good". They want to re-frame the debate into a public health issue, allowing regulation by agencies rather than legislation. For instance, the CDC has committees on "gun violence" and heres a shocker, guess what they recommend?
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dylistn View Post
    New York is pretty skrewed up but have they reversed this? That would explain alot!
    I don't think NY is that screwed up. It just takes a little longer, that's all.

    Once you have your permit, it's relatively simple to purchase a new firearm.

    You of course, must go through the 7743 FBI Form, then (in Ulster County, NY) you take your purchase receipt to the county sheriff's office. They record the firearm on your permit, and give you a coupon stating this was done. You then bring the coupon back to where you bought the firearm, give them the coupon, and walk out with your gun.
    Last edited by JonInNY; January 13th, 2011 at 12:43 PM.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Because the 2d Amendment does not specifically state we have the right to keep and bear toys. Maybe we should regulate the 1st as much as these idiots want to regulate the 2d then I wouldnt have to read this communist crap spewed out by morons who do not respect the founding fathers and what this country is supposed to be.

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I just can't think of the reasoning behind a 10 round limit... If someone is going to break the law by shooting innocent people what would stop them from acquiring a larger magazine? If he had three 10 round magazines would it have made that much difference? Almost all the articles I have seen point out the fact he had a mag that didn't come with that gun... it was suppose to be for the G18 which isn't available to civilians... some states don't allow you to have one already... Ohio for instance limits to 30 rounds so a 33 round mag is already illegal.

    Might I say that is like saying we should regulate duct tape to only be 1/4" wide because right now it can bind and gag someone? With it being only 1/4" wide it can't do that anymore.... oh wait....
    We should regulate letter openers to only be 3" instead of 5"? because they look like knives and can stab people? with it only being 3" it can't.... oh wait.....

    Nope I can't think of any analogy in defense of the purposed ban of hi cap magazines... Need any more proof... look at Cali... they already banned magazines over 10 rounds, look at how low their crime rate is compared to the rest of the country... oh wait...
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
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    To protect the public, we regulate cars and toys, medicines and mutual funds.

    Let us take a look, we had cars that would not stop, toys full of lead paint, 67 medicines under class action law suits, and the finicial collaps; all were perfectly regulated by the GVT. 2009-2010; makes perfect logic to regulate something else "they are so good at it"

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerby View Post
    To protect the public, we regulate cars and toys, medicines and mutual funds.

    Let us take a look, we had cars that would not stop, toys full of lead paint, 67 medicines under class action law suits, and the finicial collaps; all were perfectly regulated by the GVT. 2009-2010; makes perfect logic to regulate something else "they are so good at it"
    Good point
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  11. #10
    Member Array Hampster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerby View Post
    To protect the public, we regulate cars and toys, medicines and mutual funds.

    Let us take a look, we had cars that would not stop, toys full of lead paint, 67 medicines under class action law suits, and the finicial collaps; all were perfectly regulated by the GVT. 2009-2010; makes perfect logic to regulate something else "they are so good at it"
    Yes in deed more regulation, that's the ticket, they are going to regulate this country into the ground......Don't forget Madoff, they had their ever watchful eye on him too...
    "Change that you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun"
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    I would like to see guns regulated like cars. I can walk into any dealership in any state pay and take immediate possession of a car then drive it to any other state without the need for a permit or the blessings of the state. Also there are no size limits or limits on the numbers of cars I may purchase.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    In Nassau once you get your Pistol license you can purchase as many purchase orders as you like for $10.00 each. The PO are good thru the calander year. Go to any gun store buy what you like,they fill out Po and u walk out of the store with the firearm. You have 10 days to get back to police HQ to have it added to your license. You can carry it,shoot it,polish it, dance with it but must be added within the 10 day window.

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    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Who's going to protect us from the regulators ? Next it will be knives, then bats, then kitchen utinsels, then aresols. It goes on and on.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Because the 2d Amendment does not specifically state we have the right to keep and bear toys. Maybe we should regulate the 1st as much as these idiots want to regulate the 2d then I wouldnt have to read this communist crap spewed out by morons who do not respect the founding fathers and what this country is supposed to be.
    +1 I can't believe people actually voted these morons into office in the first place. I really believe that common sense in this country is severely lacking lately.
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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I think if the author took the time to read the guidelines, rules, and ATF regulations of ffl's, not to mention various state laws, I suspect he would realize firearms are extremely regulated.

    Regulations include, bans on possession, carrying, loading, using, practicing with, crossing state lines, mailing, citizenship requirements, age requirements, mental health requirements, criminal background requirements, domestic violence requirements, special taxes, barrel length requirements, marking requirements, manufacturing registering requirements, ...

    I suppose the only thing more highly regulated is alcohol...
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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