Possible Pro-2nd Amendment Changes in NYS Concealed Carry Law

This is a discussion on Possible Pro-2nd Amendment Changes in NYS Concealed Carry Law within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There is a proposal in the NYS Senate to drop the proper cause clause for unrestricted carry in NYS. This would seem to effectively eliminate ...

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Thread: Possible Pro-2nd Amendment Changes in NYS Concealed Carry Law

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Possible Pro-2nd Amendment Changes in NYS Concealed Carry Law

    There is a proposal in the NYS Senate to drop the proper cause clause for unrestricted carry in NYS. This would seem to effectively eliminate the authority of the licensing agent (judge, sheriff department or PD) to require proof of some extraordinary danger to exist in order to receive a license for unrestricted carry by those seek such a license. It would also appear to remove the authority of licensing agents to apply administrative restrictions.

    Of course this as stirred a buzz among NYS license holders regarding what ulterior motives might exist for introducing this legislation. What do you think?

    http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/...&Memo=Y&Text=Y

    The relevant part of the proposal is in the first few paragraphs (the wording in brackets is being removed)...

    Section 1. Paragraph (f) of subdivision 2 and subdivision 4 of section
    2 400.00 of the penal law, paragraph (f) of subdivision 2 as amended by
    3 chapter 189 of the laws of 2000 and subdivision 4 as amended by chapter
    4 331 of the laws of 2005, are amended to read as follows:
    5 (f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of
    6 possession[, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance
    7 thereof];
    and
    8 4. Investigation. Before a license is issued or renewed, there shall
    9 be an investigation of all statements required in the application by the
    10 duly constituted police authorities of the locality where such applica-
    11 tion is made. For that purpose, the records of the appropriate office of
    12 the department of mental hygiene concerning previous or present mental
    13 illness of the applicant shall be available for inspection by the inves-
    14 tigating officer of the police authority. THE POLICE AUTHORITY IN THE
    15 LOCALITY WHERE THE APPLICATION IS MADE SHALL CONDUCT A SEARCH OF THE
    16 NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM (NICS). In order to
    17 ascertain any previous criminal record, the investigating officer shall
    18 take the fingerprints and physical descriptive data in quadruplicate of
    19 each individual by whom the application is signed and verified. Two
    20 copies of such fingerprints shall be taken on standard fingerprint cards
    21 eight inches square, and one copy may be taken on a card supplied for
    22 that purpose by the federal bureau of investigation; provided, however,
    23 that in the case of a corporate applicant that has already been issued a
    24 dealer in firearms license and seeks to operate a firearm dealership at
    25 a second or subsequent location, the original fingerprints on file may

    EXPLANATION--Matter in ITALICS (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
    [ ] is old law to be omitted.
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

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    No ulterior motives. This same piece of legislation has been proposed for the past several years and has never made it to vote.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    No ulterior motives. This same piece of legislation has been proposed for the past several years and has never made it to vote.
    In light of the Westchester County case it may get to a vote this time around to quell the case from going forward. The question is would passing this legislation accomplish the same things as a successful outcome in the Westchester case.
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

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    IMO it will never happen
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2edgesword View Post
    In light of the Westchester County case it may get to a vote this time around to quell the case from going forward. The question is would passing this legislation accomplish the same things as a successful outcome in the Westchester case.
    I think it would since proper cause no longer needs to be demonstrated. Even for a target permit in Westchester I had to show cause - which was basically saying I had taken the NRA course and saying what ranges I'd likely be shooting. Every year I've hoped it make it to vote and pass, maybe this is our year.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Here is a google cache link to last years bill. It has a more complete description of what this change means. i.e. shall issue and no restrictions.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    Here is a google cache link to last years bill. It has a more complete description of what this change means. i.e. shall issue and no restrictions.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
    Thanks fastk9dad. That sheds some light on the situation.
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

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    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    Maybe New Yorkers should enlist the help of the ACLU.

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    So...would this apply to NY City as well??
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    So...would this apply to NY City as well??
    That is one of the questions that needs to be answered. NYC has exercised home rule with respect to a number of provisions of NYS law. Having said that I think in the post Heller and McDonald world it would be more difficult to continue that exercise if this legislation or the Westchester case help strike down the restrictions currently in place in other counties.
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    I willing to bet that even if the NY Senate passes this, it will never make it to Governor Cuomo's pen. Even if somehow it does, he probably would not sign the bill anyway.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    I willing to bet that even if the NY Senate passes this, it will never make it to Governor Cuomo's pen. Even if somehow it does, he probably would not sign the bill anyway.
    Under normal circumstances I would agree but with respect to this issue I don't think we're under normal circumstances. While the antis haven't changed their stripes they are well aware of the SC court decisions and the litigation that is currently making its way through the courts. That and the fact that NYS is in deep budget dodo I don't think the powers that be in NYS want to deal with this issue and tie up resources fighting a losing battle. No guarantees but if it makes it through the legislature and gets to the governor I think he'll sign it.

    BTW, it seems we have another common passion, is that your Cessna?
    Martial Blade Concepts, Jiu-Jitsu & Eskrima NRA, GOA, NYSRPA, LIF, Old Bethpage Rifle & Pistol Club

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2edgesword View Post
    BTW, it seems we have another common passion, is that your Cessna?
    Sent you a PM, but it's a sharing arrangement with a friend, who owns it, so I have use of it almost anytime.

    It's a 2007 172SP, 180HP, with in-panel GPS tied to a 3-axis autopilot. It's a great little plane to fly!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    An issue in other "may-issue" states is the committee system. There are always "shall-issue" bills, but the committee chair is always a rabid anti(who's always in a safe liberal district) who won't let it get to a vote. Their job is to cover for those politicians who could potentially pay a price for voting against shall-issue.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Just to clarify: local licensers putting carry conditions on the State Permit (which is almost always a Carry Permission) is allowed the counties. The restrictions are county ordinances not State gun laws.. Some counties have these "add-on" restrictions, some don't - and some who do remove them upon request after a year of having no problems with any permit issues.

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