Reciprocity vs Recognition

This is a discussion on Reciprocity vs Recognition within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just got back from a CCW training course with a certified firearms instructor. The instructor made a point to explain the difference between "reciprocity" ...

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Thread: Reciprocity vs Recognition

  1. #1
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Reciprocity vs Recognition

    I just got back from a CCW training course with a certified firearms instructor. The instructor made a point to explain the difference between "reciprocity" and "recognition." He told me that a state with reciprocity has agreed to honor all the rights to carry granted by the permitting state. The specific example he used was this:

    If you have a Utah CWP and travel to a state that has reciprocity with Utah such as NC, then you can carry concealed into a place that serves alcoholic beverages due to the reciprocity agreement, even though a native NC resident with a NC CWP cannot legally carry concealed in a place that serves alcoholic beverages. In contrast, in a state that only recognizes the Utah CWP you would still be subject to the local restrictions while visiting that state.
    This struck me as rather too good to be true, so I'm wondering if someone can please elucidate the exact details between "recognition" and "reciprocity," and either confirm or deny this quote.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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    Member Array Maltz's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't buy that at all. You are *always* covered by the laws of the state you are in (and federal law), not of your home state. If that other state recognizes your permit, that allows you to carry, but you still have to obey local laws. The only way something like that would work is if the local law explicitly says you can follow the rules of your home state... that seems highly unlikely. lol

    Strictly speaking, "reciprocity" implies that the two states recognize each other's permits, while "recognition" could be that or just a one-way recognition. But the terms are often used rather interchangeably.

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    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    There is definitely some difference between reciprocity and recognition because the official document had two separate lists of states that had "reciprocity" followed by a second list of states that had "recognition"
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    I would very much like to know the name of that instructor if you would be willing to PM me with that info. He is passing on information that will cause some serious repercussions. What "official document" are you referring to that states these differences?

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    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    No matter reciprocity or recognition, you must obey the law of the state you are in. Imgine the legal morass that would ensue if things were as the instructor told you/ He should have his certification removed. As someone said, that info will land you in hot water, not to mention the loss of your CWP.

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    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Thank you all for verifying my suspicions. I don't have the document on hand so I can't say exactly what it was titled. However, it just occurred to me that the list of states with "reciprocity" must have meant states that honor the issuing state's permit, whereas the states listed under "recognition" were the ones whose licenses are honored in the issuing state. I'm going to have a talk with my instructor about this tomorrow before doing anything hasty like spreading rumors with potentially serious consequences.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    Thank you all for verifying my suspicions. I don't have the document on hand so I can't say exactly what it was titled. However, it just occurred to me that the list of states with "reciprocity" probably meant states that honor the issuing state's permit, while the list of "recognized" states was probably for the states whose licenses are honored in the issuing state. I'm going to have a talk with my instructor about this tomorrow before doing anything hasty like spreading rumors with potentially serious consequences.

    You ALWAYS follow the laws of the state you are in. Reciprocity only works that way. Just think about it, how would any LEO know the laws of states other than their own? Reciprocity is the agreement between two states to honor each others permits.

    Here is the NC department of justices web page explaining reciprocity. http://www.ncdoj.com/About-DOJ/Law-E...ciprocity.aspx

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    It would seem to me that the difference depends on if the agreement goes both ways. I know that there are states that recognize my permit, but people with permits from those states are not recognized in Ohio. If it is a one way agreement, it is "recognizing", if it goes both ways, it is "reciprocity."

    You always need to obey the laws of the state you are in.
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    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    You ALWAYS follow the laws of the state you are in. Reciprocity only works that way. Just think about it, how would any LEO know the laws of states other than their own?
    Yes you're absolutely right. I should have just called bullsh*t on this right away, but being the "student", rather than the instructor who has been doing this for 30 years, I just wanted to make double sure before disagreeing with him.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Ask him where it says that in here?

    14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This section shall not apply to the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat..._14-269.3.html
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    You are always required to follow the laws of the state you are carrying in, regardless of what your "home" state laws are. You have to follow the laws of the state you are visiting. That's why it pays to know the laws of the states you visit. He definitely is giving out incorrect information.
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    He's setting you up for a bad time. Regardless of where your permit is issued, you must follow the laws of the state you're in--period.

    I quickly learned in the military not to believe what all the old timers quoted as regs and rules. When I had questions, I looked them up. When I asked the "superiors" the same questions, they often were either following some outdated rule or flat out wrong.

    Same goes for any instructor. Bad info is passed from one to the next; things change without being noted.
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    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    Let me guess. He worked in a gun shop or heard it on the Internet

    sheesh

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    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    It would seem to me that the difference depends on if the agreement goes both ways. I know that there are states that recognize my permit, but people with permits from those states are not recognized in Ohio. If it is a one way agreement, it is "recognizing", if it goes both ways, it is "reciprocity."

    You always need to obey the laws of the state you are in.
    +1. Perfect example of this is IA, among others. They recognize all other states' permits...but not every state recognizes theirs. Those states that do, it is reciprocity. Those that don't, it is recognition.

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    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    I would get a new instructor he is flat wrong and setting people up for a very bad day.

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