Mayors Against Illegal Guns

This is a discussion on Mayors Against Illegal Guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; One of my more liberal leaning friends, who apparently is on the Mother Jones mailing list, forwarded to me this email from Mayors against Illegal ...

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Thread: Mayors Against Illegal Guns

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    Member Array JPCleary's Avatar
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    Mayors Against Illegal Guns

    One of my more liberal leaning friends, who apparently is on the Mother Jones mailing list, forwarded to me this email from Mayors against Illegal Guns asking what I thought about their proposals...

    The following message from Mayor Cory Booker and Mayors Against Illegal Guns has been sent to you via Mother Jones .

    Mayors Against Illegal Guns Tell Congress to Fix Gun Checks. Sign the Petition!Dear friend, Every day in America, 34 people are murdered with guns. Each death devastates a family and shatters a community. The recent tragedy in Tucson is no exception — it sent a shock wave across our country that united us in a moment of crisis and profound loss. Now, to honor those affected by gun violence, we must take action to stop this pattern of senseless shootings.America’s gun laws are designed to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, drug abusers, and other dangerous people. But the background check system these laws depend on is broken, making it far too easy for guns to end up in the wrong hands. In my city of Newark, we’ve shown how a dedicated police force and an engaged community can reduce gun crime and make it harder for dangerous people to get guns. But we need our leaders in Washington to step up and help us get the job done. That’s why I'm asking you to join 550 mayors from across the country in calling on Congress and President Obama to fix our broken background check system. Sign the petition to Fix Gun Checks and tell your elected officials where you stand.The Tucson killer bought a gun despite a history of drug abuse and mental health issues. That is tragically reminiscent of Virginia Tech, where the shooter passed a background check even after a judge declared him mentally ill. In fact, we’ve seen this kind of failure again and again. Dangerous people have slipped through the cracks in our gun laws ever since Congress passed the first Gun Control Act back in 1968, after the assassinations of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. It’s time for Congress to fix gun background checks and stem this tide of violence by taking two critical steps:

    • Get all the names of people who should be prohibited from buying guns into the background check system. • Require a background check for every gun sale in America.

    Tell Congress to fix the broken background check system and keep our communities safe.Together, let’s close out this 43-year struggle to keep dangerous people from getting guns. Thanks for standing up, Mayor Cory Booker
    Kimber Tactical Ultra II, Kahr PM45, Kahr PM9, Kahr P380

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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    I'd tell him to go **** himself.

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    I want to be a realist. There are people who should be prohibited either because of their criminal record or significant mental health history. I'm not going to knee jerk complain about folks who want effective background checks from databases with real and verifiable information. Yup, its a pain, but it is a pain which may be worthwhile.

    This issue is in some ways a distinct process from permitting. Even in "constitutional carry" states the purchase requires a check. Let's make that system work. What's wrong with that?

    Will there be problems, of course. No system is perfect. But why on G-d's earth should we let convicted released felons further break the law by sauntering into a gun store and being able to purchase---against the law-- without trying to prevent it.

    Why would we want to NOT make an effort to keep guns out of the hands of those who have been found mentally incompetent and who are not recovered?

    This is not the same thing as permitting. I need no permit to purchase and possess a long gun, but I do need a background check.

    There are other more important gun issues to me than having a retailer check a computer to make sure I wasn't in a penitentiary for 7 years or confined to a hospital by court order. I'm more than willing to answer a few questions truthfully.

    Flame away.

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    Member Array beaker's Avatar
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    i agree with you hopyard.

    i would refrain from telling him to go **** himself. if something like this were to pass, you might find yourself on that list of people prohibited from owning a gun.

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    Member Array JoeyD's Avatar
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    Here's the opposing view on MAIG: NRA-ILA :: The Truth About "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" There's lots been written on this group and none of it bodes well for gun owners due to incrimentalism. We all know how the story goes: a bill is introduced in a "reasonable" form that makes "common sense" to some folks. Then the bill goes through conference and all their other legislative gymnastics and we come out with a set of amendment-laiden laws that purports to be good for controlling guns (yours and mine, mostly) but totally ineffective in slowing down the BG's. Many mayors have pulled out of the group after they finally learned the hidden agenda. Do some real research on it and see what you think, then you'll know how to respond to your "friend" who sent you the article.

    And here's the MAIG sight...read it all with your thinking cap on...leave the rose colored glasses off.
    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns....ome/home.shtml
    Last edited by JoeyD; March 3rd, 2011 at 11:15 PM. Reason: include the actual MAIG site for reference

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I'm all for wanting to keep dangerous weapons from dangerous people, too. Heck, who isn't for 'de-fanged' criminals, except criminals. Once someone is identified as dangerous and proven to be so (ie, conviction via jury of peers), then our system of governance has a simple way of dealing with it. And at that point, a simple background check can work, so long as one is comfortable with disallowing previously-convicted felons and 'mentals' from having dangerous weapons. But in the 'gray' area where claims and accusations rule (ie, before conviction), few (if any) legislative proposals have ever done more than (a) restricting upstanding citizens and (b) failing to keep any firearms from felons willing to go somewhere other than the corner store. Little, if any, legislation has ever gotten around that one simple issue.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    I ama also against ILLEGAL GUNS...I'm also against STUPID POLITICIANS, PRETENTIOUS MAYORS, NANNY STATES..... RAIN ON A SUNNY DAY....
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Send a reply email to counter the stats with verifiable links to prove your numbers, actual Mayors member list (significantly smaller than the 550 claimed) and various counter arguments.

    Give the grass eaters something else to chew on.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Hop - I basically agree with you. An effective system to keep those in society that should not have access to guns from gaining such access is not a bad thing. Now, who has been in the news lately as being the main culprit in what should have been denied illegal gun sales but they actually went througth? Let me think, oh yeah, BATFE in an operation that appears to have been approved by the current justice department and executive administration. Let's start with fixing that faux pas.

    As to the lapses in the system for Tucson, there seems to be plenty of evidence that had government personnel in the military and sheriff's office acted on what they knew and put this info into the database, the system would have worked. This is not a sign of a broken system, which could not possibly be omniscient, but the mark of a failure in the support system around that system. As long as people are involved, and how can they not be in such a system, there will be errors both innocent and purposed.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    ... but the mark of a failure in the support system around that system. As long as people are involved, and how can they not be in such a system, there will be errors both innocent and purposed.
    +1!

    My local gun shop (hole in the wall) has had several of his long time customers and friends get their 4473 denied due to an "Error" that they had to go get straightened out. Nothing they did, just someone else screwed up somewhere and they [customer] had to go fix it.

    Human fault falls on both sides of the current system, but it is not broke, so don't fix it.

    They start requiring HIPA releases on the 4473, that will be one more step closer to Gattaca than I would prefer.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    +1!

    They start requiring HIPA releases on the 4473, that will be one more step closer to Gattaca than I would prefer.
    That would be a wrongheaded mistake. I'm even quite skeptical of electronic medical records which may be shared by various providers. Privacy will never be kept and once an error is made it gets perpetuated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hop - I basically agree with you. An effective system to keep those in society that should not have access to guns from gaining such access is not a bad thing. Now, who has been in the news lately as being the main culprit in what should have been denied illegal gun sales but they actually went througth? Let me think, oh yeah, BATFE in an operation that appears to have been approved by the current justice department and executive administration. Let's start with fixing that faux pas.

    As to the lapses in the system for Tucson, there seems to be plenty of evidence that had government personnel in the military and sheriff's office acted on what they knew and put this info into the database, the system would have worked. This is not a sign of a broken system, which could not possibly be omniscient, but the mark of a failure in the support system around that system. As long as people are involved, and how can they not be in such a system, there will be errors both innocent and purposed.
    Clearly with both Tucson and VaTech, there were plenty of folks who knew and did nothing. Same for the murders at Ft. Hood. Plenty of folks knew the doc was nuts. But merely because there is an inevitable error rate doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Sure, and apply the SAME checks to people in order to get a drivers licenes.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsonvalley View Post
    I ama also against ILLEGAL GUNS...I'm also against STUPID POLITICIANS, PRETENTIOUS MAYORS, NANNY STATES..... RAIN ON A SUNNY DAY....
    I agree, and to use the anti's own phrase, any reasonable individual should be against ILLEGAL gun ownership. I may not agree with all the gun laws on the books, but until they are repealed they are the law.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    No Flame here. I must do a back ground check to purchase and I don't mind and here's why....I'm not a criminal. Every time I pass a weapons check it think "Bite Me." I believe weapons in the hands of criminals that are purchased illegal hurts us all as the gun controllers are not operating on common sense that separates the legal from the criminal. They just want them all gone for easier population control. Thats their agenda. They can holler all they want as most criminals don't bother to purchase legally anyway. I believe all the gun controllers must know this because they don't stop and their efforts make no impact on removing guns from criminals...its about gun control for all and just using criminals as the disguise for their original intent. Its easier to control the masses if they only have sticks. If their efforts are successful some day to remove guns from criminals then good for them. They also want to introduce your medical records in the check which is none of there business. This is where I draw a line. Meanwhile, I'll protect myself. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but I dont think so. How do you tag someone that flies under the radar. I dont think the debate would be so difficult they they were just honest in their approach but, it always feels like I need a shower after I talk to an anti.
    Remember, I carry a gun because a cops too heavy.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

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