The ULTIMATE IMMORALITY

The ULTIMATE IMMORALITY

This is a discussion on The ULTIMATE IMMORALITY within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; ExSoldier's NOTE: Obviously the story itself is internet lore or possibly meant to be used as an illustration. It's too pat. But it is a ...

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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb The ULTIMATE IMMORALITY

    ExSoldier's NOTE: Obviously the story itself is internet lore or possibly meant to be used as an illustration. It's too pat. But it is a useful illustration, nonetheless!
    Pacifism: The Ultimate Immorality (This is SENSATIONAL!!!)
    ChronWatch ^ | 25 July 2006 | Raymond Kraft

    Posted on 07/25/2006 1:42:24 AM EDT by Aussie Dasher

    Last week, Jack and Jill Pacifisto were walking home through the park after dinner with friends, during which they had spent a few hours discussing the immorality of violence and war and their commitments to send more money to progressive activists over the next year. Suddenly, Tony Thug stepped out of the shadows and pointed a pistol at Jack and said, “Give me your wallet,” and, pointing the gun at Jill, “Your purse.”

    “What?” asked Jack, incredulous, “Hey, we don’t want any trouble. We’re pacifists. We aren’t going to hurt you.”

    “Not my problem,” said Tony, “Gimme your money.”

    So Jack and Jill did, and then Tony said, “And now gimme your watches, rings, jewelry, everything worth anything.”

    “Hey,” said Jill, “This is my wedding ring!”

    And Tony said, “Not my problem.”

    Jack and Jill handed over their wallet, and purse, and all their jewelry and Rolex watches, and then Tony shot them both twice in the chest and picked up the loot and stepped back into the shadows.

    As Jill lay dying she whispered, “Tony? Why didn’t you fight back? Why didn’t you have a gun?” Those were her last words.

    “I couldn’t,” whispered Tony. “I’m a pacifist.” Those were his last words.

    A few days later, Bill Thaxton and his wife were walking home through the park after dinner, when Tony Thug stepped out of the shadows.

    “Give me your wallet, your purse,” said Tony, pointing his gun first at Bill, and then at his wife. He did not know that Bill was an old lawman, and had been a Marine sniper when he was young, and was active in the Single Action Shooters Society and had a concealed-carry-permit. Tony assumed that the old man was just an old man with some money and a few credit cards in his wallet walking home from dinner.

    “Sorry, friend, I don’t like guns, and I don’t want any trouble,” said Bill.

    “Not my problem,” said Tony, “Gimme your wallet, your purse,” he said, waving the gun at Bill’s wife, “Rings, watches, everything.”

    “And what if I don’t?” asked Bill.

    “I’ll shoot you both. Her first,” said Tony, pointing his gun at Bill’s wife again.

    “Well,” said Bill, “Okay, honey, do what he says.”

    She tossed down her purse. Bill reached slowly for his left lapel with his right hand and then, like lightning, did a cross-draw with his left and came out blazing with his trusty little 9, nailing Tony three times.

    As he lay on the sidewalk dying, Tony Thug was heard to mutter, “Damn, I shoulda stuck with the pacifists . . .”

    An acquaintance wrote me last week to tell me proudly how he had been a pacifist since the ‘60s. His letter set me thinking about pacifism, which is the ultimate and vilest form of immorality.

    If you are Hitler, or Saddam, or Osama, or Ahmadinejad, your desire to kill those you dislike is at least honest and open. You wear you hate on your sleeve and we know who and what you are. But the Pacifist wears his refusal to resist evil as if it were a badge of honor, and claims it as a sign of his or her absolute moral superiority. The Hitlers and Osamas are at least honest about who they are, the Pacifist is not. Not even to himself.

    The German Pastor Martin Niemoller wrote a poem circa 1946 about the quiescence of German intellectuals in the face of the Nazi rise to power that has become famous. Translated, it reads:

    When they locked up the social democrats,

    I remained silent,

    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists

    I did not speak out,

    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews

    I did not speak out,

    I was not a Jew.

    When they came for me

    there was no one left to speak out.

    The Pacifist says something like this, but, unlike Niemoller, without apology. He says:

    When you come for my allies

    I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    When you come for my countrymen

    I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    When you come for my neighbor,

    I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    When you come for my mother,

    my father, my brother,

    my sister, I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    When you come for my wife,

    my husband, my son,

    my daughter, I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    When you come for me,

    I will not fight you,

    for I am a Pacifist.

    ExSoldier's second NOTE: This is the IMPORTANT part of this thread! The meat of the subject as it were. READ ON!

    The Pacifist claims that he (or she) is too good to fight against evil, and this is the catastrophic intellectual and moral failure of Pacifism. In the guise of being too good to oppose evil, the Pacifist invokes the ultimate immorality by aiding and abetting and encouraging evil, on the pretext of being too pure, too wise, too sophisticated to fight evil, thereby turning the pretense of goodness and purity into an invocation and license for evil to act without opposition.

    The moral stance of the Pacifist is, unwittingly perhaps, homicidal, genocidal, fratricidal, suicidal. The Pacifist says, in effect: “There is nothing good worth fighting for. And there is nothing so evil worth fighting against.”

    The Pacifist is willing to give evil free reign, because he or she thinks or feels that fighting against evil is even worse than evil itself . . . an intellectual and moral equivocation of monumentally staggering proportions. In order to be a Pacifist, one must hold that Nazism or Islamism or Communism or any other puritanical totalitarian ideology that seeks to slaughter or oppress all the Jews or all of any other race or tribe is no worse, is not morally inferior, to the existence of Jews and Judaism, or whatever other race or tribe is the whipping boy of the day.

    To be a Pacifist, one must hold that acquiescence to a Jihad that seeks to destroy Western Civilization is no worse than Western Civilization, even though the Jihad seeks to extinguish intellectual freedom, religious freedom, political freedom, and ultimately even the freedom to be a Pacifist.

    As the English philosopher Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” The Pacifist replies, “I am so good that I will do nothing, I will hurt no one, even if that means that good will be destroyed and evil will win. I am so peaceful that I will not discriminate between the goodness of good and the badness of evil, certainly not with enough conviction to take up arms, literally or figuratively, against the triumph of evil over good, of totalitarianism over freedom, of barbarianism over civilization.”

    And so the Pacifist, perhaps unthinkingly, unwittingly, mistakenly, is deeply mired in his intellectual confusion, but surely and unequivocally, the epitome of evil itself, For the Pacifist devoutly believes that by refusing to fight against evil he is affirming that he is good, too good and pure to oppose evil, too good and pure to fight evil, to good and pure to kill evil. But in the end, he is the enabler without whom the triumph of evil would not be possible.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #2
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    Great Jim -
    The Pacifist is willing to give evil free reign, because he or she thinks or feels that fighting against evil is even worse than evil itself . . . an intellectual and moral equivocation of monumentally staggering proportions.
    And here is in part the core statement - n'ere a truer statement made.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  3. #3
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    Just re-discovered this Jim - it sorta fits in with the overall theme, even if folks have seen it before -

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Responsibly Armed

    By Finn Aagaard

    I carry my pistol always, whenever the law permits, inside or outside the house; at night it goes under my pillow, where I have slept with one on and off for 45 years. Am I utterly paranoid, do I feel that evil out to get me is lurking everywhere, am I so ruled by fear that I must have my security blanket at all times?

    No. To think so would be to completely misunderstand the role of the personal gun in my life. My pistol, combined with some competence in its use, has indeed been a wonderful comfort in a few potentially unpleasant circumstances, and the knowledge I can retain command of my immediate environment does tend to encourage a calm self-confidence in everyday life, while precluding panic in an emergency.

    The chief virtue of the pistol is that I wear it; you do not have to go and fetch it when criminal violence threatens with shocking suddenness ‘out of the blue,’ as can happen even in peaceful Llano County, Texas, where I live. If you have time to fetch a gun, you would do better to grab a shotgun, probably. Wear your pistol, keep all other firearms locked away. On you, it is safe from kids and other unauthorized persons, you do not have to remember where you stashed it or fumble with the combination lock of a pistol safe. It is there, instantly ready to protect you and your family. On the street concealed carry is usually required either by law or social usage and has the advantage of protecting everyone, even antigun liberals, because criminals cannot tell which of their potential victims might be armed.

    Yet my pistol is more than just security. Like an Orthodox Jew’s yarmulke or a Christian cross, it is a symbol of who I am, what I believe and the moral standards by which I live. It symbolizes the Social Contract between myself and society and declares that I am no mere subject but a free and independent citizen of the Republic who holds inalienable rights while honoring the responsibilities that accompany those rights. My pistol states that I will defend the common weal, that I will uphold what is right and decent and that I am willing and able to protect myself and mine. (The police cannot and are not required to protect the individual person or family. They are spread too thin for that. When called they will do their best, but all too often they can get there only in time to clean up the aftermath. You are responsible for your own safety.)

    My pistol is my family's shield, my guarantee that upon my life I will let no evil touch them. When a malefactor demands, Your dignity and your money, or your life!" my pistol introduces a very sobering third alternative: No - if you persist in this criminal endeavor, it is your life that will be at hazard."

    Many people will suggest that the contents of your wallet are not worth jeopardizing your life for, just hand it over to the thug and move on. By doing so you are encouraging crime - success ensures the robber will seek another victim. I consider it to be a citizen's duty (a hard word to the me generation) to resist attempted violent crime by all means at his disposal, even at considerable risk to himself. Remember, action is always faster than reaction (unless your assailant has the reaction time of a Bill Jordan). Dissemble, pretend to go along. 'I don't w-w-want any trouble, you can have my wallet, I'm getting it out of my hip pocket now.' As your hand closes on your gun, yell: "Look out, behind you!" Side-step as you present the pistol , and when he turns back your front sight rests squarely on his chest. With variations to suit the particular circumstances, this sort of ploy will work far more often than most victims would believe. Statistics suggest that an intended victim who resists with a firearm is by a good margin less likely to be injured than one who does not resist at all. On the other hand, the surest way to survive a gunfight is not to get into one. Stay alert and avoid potentially bad situations if you possibly can.

    Research by Professor John Lott, Gary Kleck and others into the effects of concealed carry laws prove beyond quibbling that they reduce violent crime quite considerably. Since it began to license responsible citizens to carry arms, Florida's murder rate has sunk from 36 percent above the national average to well below it, and overall the decline in violent crime in states with concealed carry laws (compared to the others) runs at east 15 percent for murder, II percent for robberies and 9 percent for rape, according to Professor Lott. Private citizens are said to use firearms in self-defense as often as a million times a year. In the vast majority of these incidents no blood is shed; the thug flees or surrenders. Nevertheless, it is claimed that private citizens justifiably in twice as many criminals as the entire law enforcement establishment in any given year.

    Obviously, an armed and responsible citizenry is a very potent force in keeping crime in check. In many nations where private citizens are denied firearms - as most recently in Australia - violent crime is on the upswing, whereas in the U.S. the rate is declining.

    However, the right to be armed does not depend on these facts; it goes way back to our very beginnings. Long before the Second Amendment and the rights acknowledged by English Common Law traditions, the right of a free man to bear arms was recognized by almost every culture or civilization that comes to mind. Until well into this sorry century, free men were armed, and like the yeomen of England and our own militia, they constituted the backbone of their societies.

    Every right includes commitments, not least the right to bear arms. Anyone who carries a pistol in public has an obligation to society to be reasonably competent with it, able to hit his target - under stress - rather than uninvolved bystanders; he must know and abide by the laws limiting the use of lethal force; he must avoid quarrels and altercations and understand that he will be held to higher standards of restraint and responsibility than an unarmed person. The course of instruction that is rightly required (in addition to background checks) in order to earn a Texas Concealed Handgun License teaches all this, and more, including conflict resolution. Passing a shooting test is mandatory, but the class does not include shooting instruction; you are expected to have arranged for adequate training beforehand. It is a fine course; anybody who intends to go armed ought to take a similar one.

    My pistol has aided no evil, it has added not a tittle of gratuitous violence to the world. On the contrary, its presence on my hip or on the Land Rover seat very definitely defused a couple of dangerous situations in the old days in Kenya. More recently, on a dark street, I am convinced the mere suspicion of its presence, engendered by my alert, confident demeanor, averted what could otherwise have been a nasty incident. Colt got it right; a pistol in the hands of a decent, courageous citizen is a convincing peacemaker. My pistol is a positive influence for stability, for decency, for righteousness, for freedom from fear and violence, for all that is right and proper. (If anyone can present a rational argument that factually disproves this statement, I will discard the gun and never carry it again.)

    One's self-image matters a great deal; it is what charts one's course through life. If I refuse to compromise my integrity, my self-respect and what the Founding Fathers referred to as their sacred honor, it is because ray image of myself will not permit it. Self-images are complex, of course. Basically I see myself as a sound and responsible citizen, a scrupulously law-abiding, friendly, reasonable, middle-class, normally intelligent and fairly well educated paterfamilias with some understanding of true values who has been blessed beyond his deserts in this life and is truly grateful.

    At the very root and foundation of my being, though, I am a warrior - a very mild one, but a warrior nevertheless - as any man must be to some degree. My pistol symbolizes that as such I will not be coerced by fear or by any political, social or physical threats whatsoever into doing anything I consider dishonorable or unworthy of my self-respect. You can push me only so far, but no farther. It symbolizes the positive side of the warrior spirit, which is the one force that can maintain respect for the law, stability, freedom, peace and decency in this world. Without it we are done.

    Warriors and hunters tend to be fascinated by fine personal arms and will often cherish one above all others, far beyond its utility as a tool. That is why embellished firearms are commonplace, while engraved carpenter's hammers are not. I dote on my Colt Officer's ACP carry gun, and delight in its presence on my hip. Now do you begin to understand what my pistol means to me?

    Be that as it may, our body of armed citizens has always been a potent force for law and order, liberty and all that is good in the land. If we allow the hoplophobic left to destroy it on an emotional whim, to make themselves 'feel good,' or in accordance with their unrealistic and failed political philosophy, we will come to rue the day.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #4
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    That was a great posting Ex.

    Say whatever you want to about the pacifists folks.
    They might get a tiny bit mad at you but, they won't fight with you about it....no matter what you say about them.

    We should have a National Bash The Pacifists Day

    We could do this ~~~~>

    And they could respond like this ~~~~~>

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    Good post, both Ex and P95.

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    Must add my favorite quote to this outsatnding thread

    Since pacifists have more freedom of action in countries where traces of democracy survive, pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. Objectively the pacifist is pro-Nazi.
    George Orwell
    The Road to Wigan Pier (1937)
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  7. #7
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    Thanks to all for this excellent thread!

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    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    Wow.... This IS a great thread! I copyed the quotes from Finn Aagaard, and Jim's original post. I was wondering if it was O.K. to share these with people? Truly great stuff!!!

  9. #9
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    From my POV, share away - I'd say this stuff is well established as public domain.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #10
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
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    Excellent reading !

    Thanks for sharing.

  11. #11
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    This 'pacifistic' idealogy in this day & age is contagious. We see it in the context of the above story, as how some whose mentality is very Rodney King......'can't we all get along?'.

    We also see story after story, of how we are told to, when robbed, just give the BGs your wallet, keys, (wife, daughter)...etc....& not to defend yourself.

    Even here on this site, advice is given, in SOME situations, to keep it in your pants (so to speak). We are told & tell others...'We aren't LEOs & should call 911 & be good witnesses.'

    That's all well & good, but be careful of how far down the pacifist's trail you allow yourself to go (or be dragged). Be careful of that slippery slope & heed advice that needs to be repeated.

    QUOTES FROM BETTER MEN THAN I



    "A man ought to do what he thinks is right…"--John Wayne

    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations" - James Madison

    "Such poor miserable creatures have misplaced values and are hiding their cowardice behind pretended family responsibility, blindly returning to see that the most glorious legacy that one can bequeath to posterity is LIBERTY; and that the only true security is liberty." - Marvin Cool

    "...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.... Horrid mischief would ensue were [the law-abiding] deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

    "Many cry peace, peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun. Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid Almighty God, I know not what course others may take, but for me, give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

    "As long as law-abiding citizens assume no personal responsibility for combating crime, liberal and conservative programs for curbing crime will fail." - Jeffrey R. Snyder, The Public Interest, No.113, Fall 1993.

    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." - Dante

    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams, Debates of 1776.

    Luke 11:21 "When a man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are undisturbed."
    Last edited by goawayfarm; July 29th, 2006 at 08:19 PM.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  12. #12
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    Here is another related piece...

    http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html

    'Nation of Cowards' by Jeffery Snyder
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    goaway - that was a very good read. Makes one proud, doesn't it?
    The Gunsite Blog
    ITFT / Quick Kill Review
    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  14. #14
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    Another good read is James D. Wrights's "Ten Essential Observations on Guns in America," 32 Society No. 3. I haven't been able to find a link to the article yet, although I find lots of references to it. NRA-ILA has reprints of it.

  15. #15
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    Nice thread to read after being absent awhile!

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