An idea for converting Anti's (long)

An idea for converting Anti's (long)

This is a discussion on An idea for converting Anti's (long) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hello, I'm drawing on the vast array of personalities and experience here on DC to check out an idea. Please tall me what you think. ...

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Thread: An idea for converting Anti's (long)

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    An idea for converting Anti's (long)

    Hello,

    I'm drawing on the vast array of personalities and experience here on DC to check out an idea. Please tall me what you think. It's kind of long to read. sorry, but I wanted to explain the reasoning to go along with the idea.

    Experiment for change.
    I often wonder what the reasoning or thought process was behind peoples decisions when they reach different conclusions on a subject or persons actions and they differ greatly than my own conclusions. What life style they might lead or their life experiences that shaped the way they view and interrupt what they see. This is for anything in life, not just the 2A.

    When asked why I carry a gun, I can’t think of any answers that are not really obvious to anyone that has put more than a few minutes thought into the subject. Should I reply with “I can’t give you any answers that you don’t already have”? I would equate it to asking a Democrat “why are you a Democrat?” or likewise asking a Republican “why are you a Republican” You already know the answers, maybe not in all the detail that the person you are asking knows, But the nature of their beliefs gives us a pretty good insight into their reasoning. For us, choosing to carry a gun, and be proactive with our personal protection was in most cases a “thought process” the natural way of making decisions, or coming to a realization of our surroundings. It’s where we take time and evaluate all the pros and cons, assess the levels of danger “to” and “not to” carry, verses other means of protecting ourselves. Some people arrive at this decision through an epiphany while contemplating the natural order of their lives and how everything fits into it, this method probably took some time, even years. But the process and subsequent “realization” came naturally so to speak. For others, the decision process may have been made in a quicker fashion after a traumatic experience, where this decision process was followed and most likely the conclusion was reached much quicker.

    In this line of thinking, there are at least two possibilities as to who we are dealing with, and the approach to answer the question for each type could be the same. I’m addressing only two, I’m sure there are far more finite differences, for the sake of discussion, we’ll stick with two. First, the individual that has thought through to some degree the cause and effect of society and it’s good vs. bad elements, but reached the conclusion that they are comfortable with allowing others to be their protectors, or feel that the odds are just too great that anything will happen to them. I would think this person would be more understanding of your conviction to take on the responsibility of your own personal protection, and might even be willing to engage in conversation with an open mind as to why you chose differently than they themselves did. I would consider these people to be the “fence sitters”. Second, is the person that puts up a wall and absolutely refuses to even allow the topic to enter their thoughts? The thought of anything ever happening to them in this “civilized society” is so astronomical, you know, “that stuff” always happens to “those people” Besides, that’s what the Police are for, “I don’t have to worry about that.”

    This individual is going to be the hardest to explain anything to, and will stonewall any answer you do give. Again, weather through a lack of thought, (opposite to us), or a traumatic experience that sent their minds racing in the other direction, it seems that this person would need to be coaxed into beginning the thought process, anything beyond that would be like trying to mold rock hard dry clay, you have to add some water first, allow it to sink in, add some more water and when it begins to soften, then you can try to shape it a little. These people are definitely the “bliss ninnies” and will never be swayed by any snappy or whimsical answer to the question of “why do you carry”. Any attempt to sway them will be viewed as trying to brainwash them the same way we have been, we’ll, in their view anyway.


    Now the question is, how do we sway those who refuse to listen to reason? I’m wondering if maybe we “pro-gun” types need to take on a new tactic, and all the anti’s advertising adds gives me an idea. We need to find a way to draw the anti’s into thinking about a topic before they realize what it is about. Advertisers do it all the time; they post a billboard with only a name or part of a very simple idea, usually not even related to the product they are pushing. It’s just to peak people’s interest. Then a little more is added. Finally you begin to bring into view the idea, not the whole idea, just the start of it. The point is to get the ball rolling, people will stick with an idea better and longer if they reach it on their own. The anti’s are trying it with their double talk groups. Using hunters organizations to recruit members saying they are against only certain types of guns, not the ones hunters use, you can bet your boots, if they get the non hunting guns, they won’t stop there and the hunters will have funded the beast that will then turn on them in the end.

    So, I’ve been thinking, (this is usually where I get into trouble) say we start out with some billboards with statistics, maybe one with the number of woman raped and assaulted every hour in the US and a woman’s picture, or some with the number of people murdered every day in this country with a person’s picture. Kind of like a crime awareness thing. (Let them begin to empathize with the person, put a face they can relate to in their mind, No hint of any other message, when people are used to seeing these bill boards. Maybe those are primarily the top half of the billboard, then later come in and add the bottom half, with a personal experience of that person that beat the odds by protecting themselves with a gun, if no shots were fired would be even better example for the bleeding hearts and “old west style shootout” crier’s, just the presence and the confidence of knowing they had the means ability to fight back was enough. It’s time to bring a fight to them that they can recognize, by throwing a little emotional warfare back at them. No stooping to using kids, or getting graphic, no need for pictures of evil guns, just a simple undeniable truth, this person you see here saved themselves with the use of a gun when no one else could help them. I don’t think anything we can do would outright change an Anti into a believer, but if we make it harder for them to dismiss their own natural thought process, and persuade them to follow through that reasoning process a little further than they have before, planting the seeds of reason so to speak. Best outcome, the fence sitters maybe give a little more credibility to the idea, and the Anti’s have one less reason to dismiss the whole idea. I’m sure for the most part, it will have no effect on the hardened anti’s, but the ones that we make stop and think. That’s where we are going to win this war.

    Is anyone on here in advertising that could help out with shaping the idea of this approach? And maybe how to pitch it to an organization that can fund it such as the NRA?

    Thanks in advance, I appreciate any comments you might have.
    Last edited by 4my sons; May 28th, 2011 at 07:54 AM.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Paragraphs please?

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    Member Array Keisukekun's Avatar
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    Paragraphs would help.

    Most of teh leaders of these anti gun organizations have their views because politically it suits them and no amount of anything will change their minds. They use their power and lies to attract scared people to them mainly parents who think that its teh government that is supposed to protect their children not themselves.

    I think in many area any type of pro gun advertising would be shot down by someone be it the advertiser or a horde of POed moms who spend all tehir time going to meetings and lobbying and picketing while their kids are out doing who knows what or being taken care of by a stranger and not getting the attention the need

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    Take the person to a range and also competition events. Exposure to various individuals will ease their stereotypes.

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    I've argued with antis on my local newspaper columnist blog for years. Everytime something happens somewhere, they start with the "ban all guns" mantra. I talk them through the rationale of how that would not solve the problem, etc. until they admit they understand my perspective. Then, next time something is in the news again, we start all over again and go throug it for the 40th time. They will never learn nor will they ever change. Many, not all, may change if something happens to them or someone close to them...I've known some in which that wasn't even an agent of change.
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    For starters...please space your paragraphs, you're killing my 6 decade old eyes.
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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I like your thought process, and this advertising technique would probably work great for the fence sitters. But rationality and logic, even emotional appeals will never work for the hardened anti's in powerfull/political positions who keep pushing anti-gun legislation. That is because for them, it isn't about the guns themselves, it is about what the guns represent and how they view the people.

    Guns in the hands of free people are a fearsome thing to those who would take away our freedom so that they will have more power. They don't trust the people. They think that they know best and should have all of the power to fullfill thier will. The dirty and power hungry politicians learned long ago what criminals have been abusing for all of time... weapons give power. They are not the only source of power, and their power can be overcome in some cases, but there is no doubt: guns give power to those who weild them.

    Those of us who think more people should have guns, generally have the world view that people are generally good, and will do the right thing when given the chance, but there are just a few bad apples out there. And why should only the bad guys have the power.
    Walk softly ...

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Paragraphs please?
    +1

    (This one is gonna take several attempts to get through!)
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Not too long ago there was a news item that a scientist had isolated a gene that carried liberalism. Really. Explained how families often have similar political leanings. So the cure for anti-gunners is in genetic engineering.
    Katana likes this.
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    When John Kennedy was assassinated, Oswald had ordered the rifle through the mail. Mailorder sales of guns were subsequently banned. James Brady was Ronald Reagan's press secretary. Sarah Brady worked as an assistant to the campaign director for the National Republican Congressional Committee. The head wound that Jim Brady suffered during the assassination attempt on President Reagan was devastating. I cannot fault either of them for their feelings on gun control. I don't agree with them, but I can certainly understand why they feel as they do.

    Congresswoman Giffords is reportedly making a miraculous recovery. Still, we have not seen her in public and it would be unreasonable to think that she will not carry permanent scars, both physical and psychological, from her injuries. Meanwhile, the man who shot her has been found to be mentally incompetent to stand trial. He was however, sane enough to purchase a Glock, extended capacity magazines, and ammunition. Once again, there are calls for gun control, bans on high capacity magazines and more thorough background checks.

    People who advocate gun control have some legitimate concerns. To dismiss them as "fence sitters" or "bliss ninnies" does them a disservice. That's just my opinion and I'm sure that there are others who will feel differently.

    I have some strong feelings concerning the right to bear arms and reasons for carrying a firearm but I can also understand why some gun control advocates feel as they do.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Sorry about the paragraphs, they got lost when I pasted this from word.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    I like your thought process, and this advertising technique would probably work great for the fence sitters. But rationality and logic, even emotional appeals will never work for the hardened anti's in powerfull/political positions who keep pushing anti-gun legislation. That is because for them, it isn't about the guns themselves, it is about what the guns represent and how they view the people.
    The intent of this isn't for the "vocal majority" This is intended to plant a seed of though into the minds of the "silent Majority". The anti's are pushing their views through schools and universities, if they have never though about this much on their own, and this is the only view they ever have placed before them, it will be harder to overcome. There is an old saying.

    "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    When John Kennedy was assassinated, Oswald had ordered the rifle through the mail. Mailorder sales of guns were subsequently banned. James Brady was Ronald Reagan's press secretary. Sarah Brady worked as an assistant to the campaign director for the National Republican Congressional Committee. The head wound that Jim Brady suffered during the assassination attempt on President Reagan was devastating. I cannot fault either of them for their feelings on gun control. I don't agree with them, but I can certainly understand why they feel as they do.


    I don't mean to dismiss the true tragidy's people have suffered. We also know the greater good lies with a free society being able to protect themselves and their loved ones.

    We can't sway the hardliners, maybe we can dig the foundation of their base out from under them. This is a long term battle plan so to speak.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    I wasn't trying to dismiss your thoughts either. I was just trying to point out the motives of some on the anti-gun side. I don't have to agree with their ideas to respect their motives. It's hard to change people's beliefs though. Even when you show them that there's no logical basis for their thinking, they will continue to argue with you; usually louder and with even less logic. What the anti-gun people fail to understand is that the genie is already out of the bottle. There are simply too many guns out there to "round 'em all up". Legislation effectively stymies those who obey laws. People who have no respect for laws will continue to have guns. It's against the law to have weapons in schools but that certainly doesn't seem to stop school shootings. It's against the law to assassinate or attempt to assassinate political figures, but that certainly hasn't stopped people like Oswald, Hinckley, or Loughner. Making it against the law for people to have firearms won't stop people who have no respect for law from obtaining a gun. It will, however, increase the pool of their potential victims and create a safer environment for them to carry out their other illegal plans.

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    Best way to convert an anti is to put their life in danger and give them a way to defend themselves. Surprising how many will chose to use the object they detest so much when their life is on the line!
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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    I think you're addressing something that isn't a problem and making an error in judgment as well: people who don't carry guns are not "Anti's" - they're people who don't carry guns. And there is no reason to "convert" them. The probability of death from violent attacker IS very low, so if some want to carry for whatever reason they/we don't like being ragged on or "pushed" in any way not to. Well, it's the reverse too. Leave people be. That's the best way to "convert" anyway. Be safe and responsible with a gun, an example to others and let them alone to make their choices. The other is presumptuous and a turn-off.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    I think this is a positive idea. Get the NRA involved...i'm sure they have the money. As the op said, it's about planting a seed and making people think more than it is about "converting an anti".

    Hamlet brings up a good point in that not all people that don't carry guns are anti's...some are just people that don't carry guns.
    Luis

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