The 1st Amendment and Nosy Doctors

This is a discussion on The 1st Amendment and Nosy Doctors within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by hamlet Stop being a self-righteous fool. How'd you like it if you got hit by a bus and no one treated you ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    Stop being a self-righteous fool. How'd you like it if you got hit by a bus and no one treated you in the ER because your guts coming out of your nose wasn't a disease. All this for simple effort to protect children, self-righteous screaming like government torturers are pulling out your fingernails. Avaunt! Back to Jupiter where you belong!
    If I take my child to the doctor with the flu...What difference does it make whether I own guns or not? Huh...answer me that Mr.Shakespeare?
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    All this is silly stuff. Children get treated absolutely horribly all the time in a criminal way, on a more mundane level they also can just be victims of care-negligence at home; people routinely do themselves in with booze, drugs, tobacco, drugs, and on...; physicians treat the effects of all of these and the human causes of disease as well as the natural-caused, and info to prevent them, disease or accident, are part of that picture because they all end in physical harm. Whether a doctor gives advice about diet and heart disease, or you for your child's safety in car or a lawyer defends a case against you and asks about your personal relationships, or spiritual counselor asks about your sense of the Infinite, they are about their professional business - and there is no law needed against them asking relevant questions because you are perfectly free to not answer them, find a lawyer you like more (and who likely will not be able to defend you) or another doctor (who doesn't care enough to ask you anything or give any information to keep you, your children healthy and safe) whoever you like.

    Live in a country that has Real repression or spend some energy on helping those who live in one now -




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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    The Amendments protect from government tyranny. Most doctors asking if you smoke, drink - or for the sake of your child's health - NOT YOU - ask about guns at home in case they are not secured - is either giving info to mitigate health risks or gauging the effect of those to properly evaluate disease findings. None of this has anything to do with the First Amendment but has a lot to do with a physician's goal: to lessen health-risk. It's not tyranny and it's not the government; if you don't want to answer a doctor's questions, so don't.

    Children get killed by guns. Obviously some homes are unsafe. It's a reasonable question.

    Don't answer if you want to be porky about it. Stop screaming about your "freedoms".

    Naah Hamlet. It's not a reasonable question except in your mind. It is someone else inappropriately assuming a right to question you. Perhaps it doesn't amount to anything at the onset but your control over you life is effectively relinquished.

    Here's a quick cut-'n-paste internet definition of tyranny. Take note of the third definition and tell us that instituting such questioning nonsense is not sliding pretty far down the slippery slope toward tyranny. The first definition isn't half bad either when examining this topic of the expediency of the medical field feeling it has the right and obligation to question us. If they feel they have the right to question us then it follows that they feel we have the obligation to provide answers. Do you want to answer for yourself? Do you want to have to answer for yourself about every tiny facet of your life? What is off limits? Who sets those limits? Should their ever be a limit to what an individual has to answer for?

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    Tyr·an·ny
    noun \ˈtir-ə-nē\
    plural tyr·an·nies
    Definition of TYRANNY
    1
    : oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man — Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>
    2
    a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
    3
    : a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock>
    4
    : an oppressive, harsh, or unjust act : a tyrannical act <workers who had suffered tyrannies>

    _________________________

    Acceding to such questioning about personal matters will certainly condition the population to accept controls when they inevitably come whether it's the government sticking its nose into matters or the government allowing or even promoting insurance companies to institute costly premiums or outright policy denials for those who choose to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. Freedoms you say we should stop screaming about.


    "...there is no law needed against them asking relevant questions because you are perfectly free to not answer them, find a lawyer you like more ... or another doctor..."


    Nope, there isn't now a law nor an insurance policy restriction in place. What happens in future when one is instituted?

    What happens when a hefty surcharge is tacked onto insurance premiums for policy holders with guns in their home; that is if they will be able to obtain insurance at all? What happens when doctors won't treat a gun owning patient? It is not beyond the realm of possibility for gun owners to be "bilked for freedom" in the not too distant future. We're already fee'd to death in so many other unnecessary ways. Why not for some erroneously perceived risk? The populace is conditioned to think that it is a reasonable question.

    I don't think so.
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  5. #19
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    BRAVO! "bmcgilvray" Good job sir, you handled that very well and displayed more patience than I could muster.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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  6. #20
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    I 'cured' this problem w my children's doc.
    She asked my son ( I was in the room at the time) if there were guns in the home.
    I questioned her as to whether she was certified in firearms safety, to which she said "no".
    I then told her that it sounded to me as though she were involved in the practice of handing out advice for which she had NO training, and that is considered 'malpractice'.
    Never brought up again.

    dan
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  7. #21
    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner View Post
    I 'cured' this problem w my children's doc.
    She asked my son ( I was in the room at the time) if there were guns in the home.
    I questioned her as to whether she was certified in firearms safety, to which she said "no".
    I then told her that it sounded to me as though she were involved in the practice of handing out advice for which she had NO training, and that is considered 'malpractice'.
    Never brought up again.

    dan
    NICE. I'm going to have to remember that one just in case!

  8. #22
    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    The Amendments protect from government tyranny. Most doctors asking if you smoke, drink - or for the sake of your child's health - NOT YOU - ask about guns at home in case they are not secured - is either giving info to mitigate health risks or gauging the effect of those to properly evaluate disease findings. None of this has anything to do with the First Amendment but has a lot to do with a physician's goal: to lessen health-risk. It's not tyranny and it's not the government; if you don't want to answer a doctor's questions, so don't.

    Children get killed by guns. Obviously some homes are unsafe. It's a reasonable question.

    Don't answer if you want to be porky about it. Stop screaming about your "freedoms".
    It might be a reasonable question in New York, but not in the free world.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
    That question is on the form my doc's secretary hands me every time I go in.
    I gave the following answer on my first visit and since then write "unchanged."
    (ahem!)
    DO YOU HAVE FIREARMS IN THE HOUSE? Y/N

    My reply:

    "I have something far more dangerous. I have a car!"
    Or, "I have something far more hazardous - a physician." Medical mistakes kill 8 to 10 times as many people as are killed by gunshot injuries.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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  10. #24
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    Honestly, I think this was a situation that required absolutely no legislative "fix".

    Doc: "Do you have any firearms in the house?"
    Parent: "No"

    End of problem.

    My GP asked me the dreaded question during my first visit:

    Doc: "Do you have any firearms in the house"
    Me: (leaning in and in a conspirational whisper) "What do you need?"
    Doc: (laughter)

    End of issue.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner View Post
    I 'cured' this problem w my children's doc.
    She asked my son ( I was in the room at the time) if there were guns in the home.
    I questioned her as to whether she was certified in firearms safety, to which she said "no".
    I then told her that it sounded to me as though she were involved in the practice of handing out advice for which she had NO training, and that is considered 'malpractice'.
    Never brought up again.

    dan


  12. #26
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Honestly, I think this was a situation that required absolutely no legislative "fix".

    Doc: "Do you have any firearms in the house?"
    Parent: "No"

    End of problem.

    My GP asked me the dreaded question during my first visit:

    Doc: "Do you have any firearms in the house"
    Me: (leaning in and in a conspirational whisper) "What do you need?"
    Doc: (laughter)

    End of issue.

    Matt
    Those are great, I'll have to remember those for sure.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  14. #28
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    I do good work. I just realized I misspelled "nosy."
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  15. #29
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    So why don't the Docs ask if there is a lawn mowers, sealed gas cans, posion, cars on blocks, bikes, power tools not put up, dogs, cats, pool, swing, un-capped wells, go-cart, mini-bikes, if they are so concerned about the safety of a child at home?

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    About 20 years ago my kids' pediatrician - a good guy and fellow gearhead - started on a low-key tirade about how bad guns were in the home, quoting the "43 times" statistic, etc. It took 2-3 visits and CDC data to get him to agree that 5-gallon pails killed more kids than firearms in the home. Didn't change his core belief that guns are "dangerous", but he was enough of a gentleman and a scientist to accept defendable data and to stop spreading mistruths.
    Smitty
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