Feinstein, Schumer, et al revving up for another run at gun ban

This is a discussion on Feinstein, Schumer, et al revving up for another run at gun ban within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; (CNN) -- A trio of Democratic U.S. senators called for tougher firearms laws and regulations after releasing a report that showed a large number of ...

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    Feinstein, Schumer, et al revving up for another run at gun ban

    (CNN) -- A trio of Democratic U.S. senators called for tougher firearms laws and regulations after releasing a report that showed a large number of weapons used by Mexico drug gangs originating north of the border.

    More than 70 percent of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

    "Congress has been virtually moribund while powerful Mexican drug trafficking organizations continue to gain unfettered access to military-style firearms coming from the United States," said Sen. Diane Feinstein of California.

    Report: Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S. - CNN.com
    Senators Feinstein and Schumer at it again.

    Following the 2004 sunset of the "Assault Weapons Ban", we heard lots of bleating from her on the topic. Violence was going to increase, children would be gunned down in the streets, dogs and cats would live together in sin, etc.

    Unfortunately for Senator "Ban them all" Feinstein, gun crimes did not increase following the expiration of the ban. This posed a problem for Senator Feinstein and her band of gun hating fellows. How to justify trampling the rights of millions of lawful gun owners? And the answer presented itself - Mexico.

    It's the perfect tool for the job. Mexican government coordination and record keeping is less than vigilant, making the data easy to tailor to fit the desired outcome. Most voters in the US know nothing of what's really happening on the border, so getting them to believe all manner of claims about US guns in Mexico is easy. No pesky Mexican gun rights organizations (and few pesky gun rights at all) to ruin good propaganda with inconvenient truths.

    Bear in mind, Ms. Feinstein's goal is banning guns. As many as she can. As she told the nation on 60 minutes, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them… ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ‘em all in,’ I would have done it."

    Fortunately for those who believe in the Constitution, Ms. Feinstein was not able to drum up enough support in the Senate to enact this mass confiscation of property. But the desire to do so has never waned.

    So now, we've got Mexico to use as a rallying cry. American citizens must give up their constitutional rights to save Mexico.

    But read the CNN story carefully.

    More than 70 percent of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.
    Senator Feinstein would have you believe that this means that more than 70% of the guns seized by the Mexican government came from the US. The argument is that our "lax" gun laws are allowing these guns to go across the border.

    But let's look at that a bit more.

    Seventy percent of the guns submitted to the ATF for tracing originated in the US. Let's take that as fact for the moment. All this means is that of the guns the Mexican authorities thought came from the us, 70% did.

    But if a gun originated outside the US, and has either no markings or non-English markings, then it would not be traced by the US. Presumably, the Mexican government would ask Russia to help trace an AK47 with Cyrillic markings rather than the ATF.

    Furthermore, guns originating outside the US may not bear any serial numbers at all, making any trace impossible.

    And some of the items pictured in these photo arrays are not available in any US gun shop. RPGs, grenades, explosives, etc.

    So clearly, this 70% figure the Senators are using to rev up their next attempt to shred the Constitution is not indicative of 70% of all guns seized in Mexico. But you can bet your aunt fanny's wheelchair that Ms. Feinstein will be waving the 70% figure like a talisman, and making all manner of emotional pleas to justify her attempt to trample the rights of law abiding Americans.

    As expected, we're headed for another round of gun-ban legislation from the extremists. Senator Feinstein and her merry band have been biding their time, waiting for the opportunity to roll this out again. And now, they've found a new horse to hitch their wagon to.

    Lucky us.
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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Also, many of those firearms went south of the border with the blessings of the ATF, who told gun shops to complete suspicious transactions so that they could "trace" the purchasers. Many of these transaction were individual buying dozens of AR and ak style weapons at one time. ATF and the justice department have been stonewalling a congressional invesigation.
    msgt/ret, QKShooter, mel and 1 others like this.

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    My guess is, unless Feinstein can get rid of Grassley's investigation of BATFE - doubtful - her case will be derailed by the inconvenient truth that BATFE has been sending the weapons south with, at least, the knowledge of the current administration. As Grassley's investigation progresses, we shall see if there was a documented political intent to beef up the numbers so the libs could make this assault on "assault" weapons or just outright stupidity (my guess is the former). Feinstein's assault is likely to fall apart under its own weight.
    Stubborn, msgt/ret and bmcgilvray like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Here is the email that GOA sent out last Friday 6/10...


    June 10, 2011

    GOA AlertGun Owners of America



    Official Corruption in the Obama Administration
    About to Take Center Stage
    -- It's now time to defund Project Gunrunner!


    A story that Gun Owners of America has been following over the past several months is ready to explode next week in the news.

    If you have been reading our newsletter, The Gun Owners, or watching our videos on the GOA website, you know what Project Gunrunner is all about. It refers to an operation where the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearm and Explosives (ATF) was working with gun shops, approving firearms purchases to buyers who were suspected smugglers.

    While this scandalous activity remained hidden for some time, it really went viral in the news media after one of the guns sold to a smuggler was later used to murder Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in December.

    Since then, GOA has been lobbying the Congress to hold Congressional hearings to investigate the corruption in the Obama administration, specifically in relation to Project Gunrunner. GOA has corresponded with President Obama on this issue and has asked it members several times to urge their legislators to call for hearings themselves.

    Well, there is good news to report. Beginning next week, the House of Representatives is set to commence hearings into Project Gunrunner -- which also goes by the names of Project Gunwalker or Fast and Furious.

    Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) is the point man leading the investigation on the House side. His hearings are sure to reveal much new information, but even so, he has already discovered quite a bit.
    Project Gunrunner “was authorized at the highest level,” Issa told a radio audience this past Tuesday. “This decision was made at least by people in the Office of Attorney General Holder.”

    This underscores the tremendous hypocrisy and antagonism against gun owners on part of the Obama Administration. After all, officials (like the President) were blaming American gun stores for letting firearms slip into gun smugglers’ hands and, thus, fueling much of Mexico’s violence.

    But all the while, the administration was quietly approving the sales of those firearms to those very same gun smugglers.

    “[The ATF] apparently did this,” said GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt in his letter to the President, “in part, so it could push gun control in Congress by demonstrating that guns used in Mexican violence came from the United States.”

    ACTION: Please urge your Representative to closely follow the upcoming hearings into Project Gunrunner. Tell them that it is unconscionable for Congress to be funding a program that allows the Obama Administration:

    1. To put guns into the hands of suspected gun smugglers; and then,

    2. To turn around and blame law-abiding gun owners for the problem!

    Project Gunrunner needs to be defunded IMMEDIATELY!
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    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Let us also consider that of the guns that originated in the USA - how many were legally sent to military and police forces south of the border, and then turned up in the hands of the cartels? Whose fault is that?
    ~~~~~
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    "70% of guns in Mexico came from the U.S.?" That is unacceptable! The blood of innocent Mexicans is on our hands! Why are we killing poor little Mexican children?!?

    There is only one solution. Guns must be eradicated from the face of Mother Earth.

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    Again.... why let the truth get in the way of a perfectly good crisis

    You can't buy this stuff at a U.S. gun store. So where do the cartels get it? According to leaked diplomatic cables, there are three sources.

    1. U.S. Defense Department shipments to Latin America, known and tracked by the U.S. State Department as "foreign military sales."

    2. Weapons ordered by the Mexican government, tracked by the State Department as "direct commercial sales."

    3. Aging, but plentiful arsenals of military weapon stores in Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua.

    Even though these facts were well-known by the Obama administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder, it blamed much of the violence in Mexico on U.S. gun stores.

    According to State Department documents, in 2009 Mexico bought nearly $177 million worth of American-made weapons, exceeding sales to Iraq and Afghanistan. That number includes $20 million in semi- and fully automatic weapons.

    "Most of the M16s were sold legally to the Mexican government and disappeared," Kartchner added.

    State Department cables obtained by WikiLeaks confirm that fear. One cable from November 2009 reads, "U.S. law enforcement has fair reason to worry a number of weapons simply disappear... "

    Another from June 2009 says, "Rogue elements of the Guatemalan military are selling weapons to narcos."

    “These are weapons that have been stockpiled either through U.S. aid programs or currently being shipped there under the guise of military support," said a confidential informant in Arizona who has worked for federal agencies such as the FBI, ATF and DEA.

    "The governments and military in those countries realize that the economy is such that they are far better off to push these weapons north and sell them than they are to keep them in their own arsenals and reserves," he said.

    Evidence of that is also contained in the Small Arms Survey. The table shows U.S. government sales of rifles, machine guns and handguns in the hundreds of thousands over a five-year period number.

    And a GAO report from last year details both foreign military and direct commercial sales of arms from 2005 to 2009.

    After looking at a warehouse full of high-powered weapons, allegedly stolen by a corrupt Mexican federal police officer, the informant said it was obvious to him that such weapons did not come from the "mom and pop" gun stores identified by the administration.

    America's Third War: Is the U.S. Arming Mexican Cartels? - FoxNews.com

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    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Here's the actual report the three amigos put out.

    Keep a bucket nearby, you'll want to puke often as you read it.
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

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    Any sort of noise about firearms restrictions by these loathsome liberals is dangerous and cause for concern but their timing is most unfortunate for their efforts to subvert Second Amendment freedoms. It's too late in this year before an election year to risk agitating the voters on such a hot political topic and the investigation of BATFE lends an air of hypocrisy and lost credibility to gun grabbing types.

    They've got to see that the party which adheres more closely with their ideology wins all the marbles at the next election and then they'll be back for more dismantling of the Constitution. It would behoove us to vote intelligently.
    Stubborn likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Any sort of noise about firearms restrictions by these loathsome liberals is dangerous and cause for concern but their timing is most unfortunate for their efforts to subvert Second Amendment freedoms. It's too late in this year before an election year to risk agitating the voters on such a hot political topic and the investigation of BATFE lends an air of hypocrisy and lost credibility to gun grabbing types.

    They've got to see that the party which adheres more closely with their ideology wins all the marbles at the next election and then they'll be back for more dismantling of the Constitution. It would behoove us to vote intelligently.
    AMEN!
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    mel
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    The 2012 election may be the most important election this country has had to face, ever. Realistically, the questions that come in to play are the economy/debt and the sovereignty of our country. The great European experiment has failed miserably, just act the Irish and Greeks. Individual freedoms are being removed and the "collective" has been pushed forward. We are going to be in the same boat if we don't go back to the morals, values and ethics that made this the greatest country in the world.
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    Let us also consider that of the guns that originated in the USA - how many were legally sent to military and police forces south of the border, and then turned up in the hands of the cartels? Whose fault is that?
    Thank you!

    Mexico has already admitted to the fact that that their [Govt/LEO/Military] arms have been sold to the cartels by less than honorable officials in the departments.

    So, I guess you could say that since the Mexican Gov't did not fill out a 4473, and go through the background check for all those departmental weapons, that they were "Straw Purchases" of some sort, and obviously did originate here.
    Sticks

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    Although we, constitutionally protected owners of guns, must maintain constant vigilance against encroachment against those rights by the US Government, things have improved in the last 20 years or so for "The People". I found this link once and it surprised even me. You may have seen it before, but if not then view it and consider that yes, there are those who wish to erase our rights. But there are also those who protect our rights and it appears that "We" are winning.

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    Our political leaders are out of control
    Real Agenda:
    US Guns that fuel Mexico drug war?
    It appears some of our political leaders are Above The Law, by trying to shift the blame on America and get gun control that will contribute in losing our SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT.

    Political set-up: they wouldn't do it they have someone else do it.
    Remember the Clinton's on Gun Control?
    At the cost of lives of our own American service men protecting our Borders.
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
    What a shame.


    Lets start with the Clinton's -

    Transcript. "CBS 'Early Show' Interview with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton." Federal News Service, 26 March 2009.

    Transcript. "NBC 'Today' Interview with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton." Federal News Service, 26 March 2009.

    And the follow up by President Obama -

    And in 2009 President Obama says 90 percent of Mexico's recovered crime Guns come from the U.S.

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    They will get nowhere with the threats but there will be a run on ammo and rifles. AR parts are already getting hard to find and the price goes up every time there is one of thes stories.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

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